Christian/Muslim Threadsa must read
I am well aware they were collected close to 200 yrs after the death of Mohammed and the first archaelogical dated koran can be traced close to 200 yrs after the death of Mohammed, put two and two together the same people who wrote that koran would have written and gathered those hadiths.
Let us have a look at the beginning of the hadith: bukhari 6 201 (Narrated Zaid bin Thabit Al-Ansari I read an interesting article that said Zaid bin Thabit Al-Ansari is a synonym for Zaid Increase, to make abundant. Thabit Firm, steady, stable. Ansar, ansari Those who supported and stood by Mohammed. Follower. al 'the'. Sometimes used for surname, meaning 'family of'. And so the name 'Zaid bin Thabit al-Ansari' means: Preacher (or follower) of those who firmly follow Mohammed's teachings The article also commented on the hadith where Uthmann tells Zaid where you differ write it in the "dialect of the quraish" it suggested the "dialect of the Quraish" really should have been correctly interpreted "voice of the Quraish". The Quraish were the elite they obtained back their power after Mohammed died, it makes logically sense that the quran you have in your posession is a direct influence of the Quraish elite class who had their own version of the koran to say servitude to the ruling class, and had Uthmann burn the rest, makes a lot more sense for Uthmann to do this from political pressure from the ruling elite than "because their dialects were different" If you are basically saying this is a false hadith because there is no chain of transmitters in a way I agree with you.
Imams the world over say it is ok to marry a preteen girl based on the role model of Mohammed ( and many muslims do) since his actions are the ones of a perfect role model, if you are claiming Aisha was towards 17/18 then convince your imams.
Now you are taking my comments and the verse it is based on out of it's historical context, we are not israelites and the only reason the israelites attacked the Amalekites with nonchalance was because the amalekites had done the same to them with their old and their children, it was part revenge, no christian is ordered to act like this in this day and age.
Common are you telling me: captives your right hands possess = Women who have run away from their disbelieving husbands So captives / slaves /women you have caught as booty/ are really believing women who have run away from their disbelieving husbands and want to sleep with you hours after you have decapitated their husband, father, uncle and several relatives, give your audience some common sense. and regarding the dowry do you know the dowry Mohammed paid Safiyah? It's a very important question.
Our idea of inspiration is completely different from the islamic concept, fascinating how you have now come to the conclusion this is a genuine error and the verse really said "in my name" . Let us imagine for a second a verse says "all married women are foridden for you to have sex with except captives" and a modern translation then says "all married women are forbidden for you to have sex with except women who have run away from their disbelieving husbands" to you the verses really say the same thing!! but a reference from a priest that includes "in my name" and omits "the Father and the Holy Spirit" is a deceitful and purposeful omission the whole religion is now a pack of lies. Humble_guest:
Since you and onegod decided to apply the same evasive tactics regarding the questions I asked on the rulings and laws after sura 5, here again is the succeeding sura 9, with a set of rules and laws some involving masjids (mosques) I ask again are these not rules and laws? This is what sura 9 says: [9] If the idol worshipers sign a peace treaty with you, and do not violate it, nor band together with others against you, you shall fulfill your treaty with them until the expiration date. GOD loves the righteous [9] The idol worshipers are not to frequent the masjids of GOD, while confessing their disbelief. These have nullified their works, and they will abide forever in Hell. [9] The only people to frequent GOD's masjids are those who believe in GOD and the Last Day, and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), and do not fear except GOD. These will surely be among the guided ones. [9] O you who believe, do not ally yourselves even with your parents and your siblings, if they prefer disbelieving over believing. Those among you who ally themselves with them are transgressing. [9] You shall fight back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and His messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the religion of truth - among those who received the scripture - until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly. Any why isn't the muslim acknowledging this obvious pagan belief about respecting the 4 sacred months? [9] The count of months, as far as GOD is concerned, is twelve. This has been GOD's law, since the day He created the heavens and the earth. Four of them are sacred. This is the perfect religion; you shall not wrong your souls (by fighting) during the Sacred Months. However, you may declare all-out war against the idol worshipers (even during the Sacred Months), when they declare all-out war against you, and know that GOD is on the side of the righteous. [9] Charities shall go to the poor, the needy, the workers who collect them, the new converts, to free the slaves, to those burdened by sudden expenses, in the cause of GOD, and to the traveling alien. Such is GOD's commandment. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise. I take it you don't see these as new rulings or laws or maybe I am taking it out of the historical context but it is for all mankind for all eternity right? Close enough, some qurra have already been lost at Yamana, AND THERE WILL BE SOME MORE CASUALTIES AT OTHER PLACES WHEREBY A LARGE PORTION OF THE KORAN WILL BE LOST. If you recall what I said to you from the very beginning we can only judge a religion by it's scriptures and our God given logic, even if you had to go to a tafsir and extract the relevant information and say this is what the tafsir says about this verse and this is what I believe fine, but you never do this, it is very obvious reading your links that you are doing this for a purpose, anybody can post the relevant parts of a tafsir on what a verse says what is stopping you doing this?
This is the first explanation in your own words you have given me about a koranic verse in all our posts (for a sec I thought it would be like getting blood from a stone). Now that you have done so, pls explain logically how taking them " for the purposes of sex" have to do with "for the sake of God"
Here is the article you linked to me to prove that the muslims were being killed and starved en mass, for the love of God show me where it says so: Either you have not read the above article or you do not understand it for you to suggest it supports your view the muslims were being killed and starved en mass. The words in bold are not mine these are from your source.
This is your typical evasive tactic YOU suggested muslims were being killed in mecca, I ask you for the hadith you refer me to a website this is as close to "mass killings and starvation" the website alludes to: "Al-Bukhari, on the authority of Ibn Mas‘ud, narrated that once when the Prophet [pbuh] was prostrating himself while praying in Al-Ka‘bah, Abu Jahl asked his companions to bring the dirty foetus of a she-camel and place it on his back. ‘Uqbah bin Abi Mu‘ait was the unfortunate man who hastened to do this ignoble act. A peal of laughter rose amongst the...Bukhari 1 37 "..and swore he would dust the Messenger’s face and tread on his neck. No sooner had he proceeded to fulfill his wicked intention than he was seen turning back shielding himself with his hands (as if something horrible in his pursuit). His companions asked him what the matter was. He said: "I perceived a ditch of burning fire and some wings flying." Later on, the Messenger commented saying, "If he had proceeded further, the angels would have plucked off his limbs one after another." [Fi Zilal Al-Qur'an 29/312; Muslim] At no point in that entire article does it mention anybody was killed, and you wonder why I no longer read your links? Surely you know where that was plagiarised from?
Simply because I chose not to respond to patronizing comments does not mean I do not know what a tafsir is, that tafsir speaks about the prophet liking honey, is this implied in the whole sura? no. Where did that interpretion of that verse come from? a hadith that says the prophet liked honey at someone's house and because of this the wives were getting jealous of each other does this make any logical sense? How about the other hadiths that speak of the prophet having sex with Mariah and telling Hafsa who told Aisha and they caused a scene isn't this a more logical explanation to the whole sura than you ate honey at someone else's house and all your wives got upset because you ate honey!!. At no point is jealousy among the wives mentioned in the whole sura if you want to parrot what imams say without looking at the sura and all the hadiths that pertain to the incident that is your choice, at least be honest with yourself that you are being truly objective. Let us look again at sura 66: [] = my comments For clarity here is the entire 12 verse sura pls point me out the jealousy: [66] In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful [66] O you prophet, why do you prohibit what GOD has made lawful for you, just to please your wives? GOD is Forgiver, Merciful [Waht does this have to do with anything? God is going to forgive him and be merciful to him for his crime of eating honey?]. [66] GOD has decreed for you the laws dealing with your oaths [ You can dissolve your oaths?] . GOD is your Lord, and He is the Omniscient, Most Wise. [66] The prophet had trusted some of his wives with a certain statement [ "I ate honey at Zaid/Zaynab/Hafsa's house? " Don't tell anybody I ate Honey? " I promise never to eat honey at Zaid/Zaynab/Hafsa's house ever again?"] [This is from Bukhari vol 3 648".. The Prophet did not go to his wives because of the secret which Hafsa had disclosed to 'Aisha [That he ate honey at Hafsa's house?], and he said that he would not go to his wives for one month as he was angry with them when Allah admonished him (for his oath that he would not approach Maria). , then one of them spread it, and GOD let him know about it. He then informed his wife of part of the issue, and disregarded part. She asked him, "Who informed you of this?" He said, "I was informed by the Omniscient, Most Cognizant."] [ coincidentally your tafsir stops it's paraphrasing from the above hadith here " he would not go to his wives for one month, because of his severe anger towards them" why didn't it include the bit about Mariah/Maryah? give your audience some credit!!!] [66] If the two of you repent to GOD, then your hearts have listened. But if you band together against him, then GOD is his ally, and so is Gabriel and the righteous believers. Also, the angels are his helpers. [Ofcourse divine threats always works] [66] If he divorces you, his Lord will substitute other wives in your place who are better than you; submitters (Muslims) [weren't they submitters?], believers (Mu'mins) [so they weren't believers?], obedient [They were very young girls sure they would be disobedient], repentant, worshipers, pious, either previously married, or virgins. [ Does this phrase belong here previously married or virgins? all because you ate honey?] [66] O you who believe, protect yourselves and your families from the Hellfire whose fuel is people and rocks. Guarding it are stern and powerful angels who never disobey GOD; they do whatever they are commanded to do. [66] O you who disbelieved, do not apologize today [??]. You are being requited only for what you did. [66] O you who believe, you shall repent to GOD a firm repentance. Your Lord will then remit your sins and admit you into gardens with flowing streams. On that day, GOD will not disappoint the prophet and those who believed with him. Their light will radiate in front of them and to their right. They will say, "Our Lord, perfect our light for us, and forgive us; You are Omnipotent." [66] O prophet, struggle against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be stern with them. Their abode is Gehenna, and a miserable destiny. [66] GOD cites as examples of those who disbelieved the wife of Noah and the wife of Lot. They were married to two of our righteous servants, but they betrayed them and, consequently, they could not help them at all against GOD. The two of them were told, "Enter the Hell-fire with those who deserved it." [66] And GOD cites as an example of those who believed the wife of Pharaoh. She said, "My Lord, build a home for me at You in Paradise, and save me from Pharaoh and his works; save me from the transgressing people." [66] Also Mary, the Amramite. She maintained her chastity, then we blew into her from our spirit. She believed in the words of her Lord and His scriptures; she was obedient. |
🌈Pride🌈 goeth before Destruction
When 🌈Pride🌈 cometh, then cometh Shame