You were quick to state the translators had english as their third language and implied they didn't know what they were talking about, typical muslim attitude it must be corrupt.
If you knew how to read Arabic or better yet if you were bi-lingual then you would understand.
Where is your translation of the koran, since everybody made such a terrible job.
Hold on a sec, where are you getting the translations for the transliterational words? I find it a bit strange your translation contradicts Hiliali and Khan. Yusuf Ali, Sale, Sher et al are you trying to tell us EVERYBODY got the translation wrong bar you. would you care to show the arabic to english dictionary you are using to obtain these very convenient translations.
Yup they made some grave errors. They didnt use the original meanings of the words but instead they used the modern medical terms of the words. Our Translation is LITERAL of the Arabic words as they were understood in the time of Muhammad
Who are you trying to fool here, your translations are ambiguous to mean whatever you want it to imply, this is an age old trick, the same trick that says the koran mentions pace-makers, and has predicted the splitting of the moon in 1969.
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If allah cannot pass on his message except via a language 90% of his converts do not speak or do not comprehend, and translations lose their meanings then the last message for all mankind for all eternity is a failure.
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Wow ! I wonder why you have 76 revised editions of the Bible in English. Hmm, lets see, in order to properly undersand the bible you have to find aid in another language inorder to define its meaning.
Has the message changed?
Hmm well lets see.
King James Version
1 John 5
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bib ... howxref=on
New International Version
1 John 5
5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
6This is the one who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7For there are three that testify:
http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bib ... &x=17&y=11
Where did verse 7 in the KJV go, and why isnt it in the NIV. Christians use the KJV of verse 7 in 1 John for the Doctrine of the Trinity, but in the NIV its not included which changes a whole lot of things.
You are now going to lecture us all on which verses support the trinity? Are you telling us christians who use the NIV do not believe in the trinity?
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Several questions pop up why did the jews want to kill Jesus, what was His crime? why did allah want to raise Jesus up dead? what for? what purpose surely God would do things for a purpose?
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This has nothing to do with the subject
Well if you have the mentality that God does things for absolutely no reason you are not serving the same God.
No one has the mentality that G-D does. His thoughts are not our Thoughts.
Yes indeed but allah's thoughts are curiously like Mohammed's (defintely not God's) and no other, right down to washing your nostrils, trimming your beard, and creating Adam after the afternoon prayer.
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BukhariVolumn 004, Book 055, Hadith Number 657.
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Narated By Abu Huraira : Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, surely (Jesus,) the son of Mary will soon descend amongst you and will judge mankind justly (as a Just Ruler)[
What part in the above statement is figurative?]; he will break the Cross and kill the pigs and there will be no Jizya ...
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Well he is not coming back according to Quran so what does it matter?
Exactly where does the quran stipulate this? Again which splinter group do you represent do you not have a name? or you are worried to reveal the name of your splinter sect?
What happened didnt you pay attention to what I posted last time.
Obviously you know nothing of islam. Not all muslims BELIEVE in a second coming of Jesus. As a matter of fact the Quran REJECTS such a second coming. If the Hadith that mentions the second coming of Jesus is taken literally then it would contradict the Quran as the Quran makes it very clear he will not be seen again until the Day of Judgement.
...When Jesus was raised up to Allah in the Heaven he became DECEASED (mutawafan). There is no second return in which he will only appear for the second time on the Day of Judgment after the physical resurrection of all mankind.
Where does the koran explicitly state this?
Personally I don't believe for one second that you were a former jew if your recent answers are anything to go by, you sound like another islamic imposter to me, muslims are the only people I have met that employ this tactic pretending to be a jew or a christian to gain some kudos when they are unable to answer basic tenets of the alledge faith they are no longer a part of, do you realise how bad it makes you look?
But there is no dispute the thoughts of allah are those of Mohammed in fact there is no diffference between the two; when Mohammed needs to rape allah sanctions it, when Mohammed needs to have sex with his slave girls without paying them dowry allah sanctions it, when Mohammed needs to steal his son's wife allah sanctions it and says he saw Moahmmed's lust and made him give her up to him imagine that a god that sanctioned lust for his prophet when the God of the previous revelation punished David for such a thing.
Thats what you believe.
No this is what the koran and the hadiths indicate, every single uttering was to benefit Mohammed, to soothe his melagomania of an ego the world is created for him, 5% of booty is designated for him, his incestual relationships have been sanctioned by allah, the whole koran is literred with his sexual promiscuity being sanctioned by allah, this is an insult to the true God.
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Nope. The point is Muslims do not understand Sister of Aaron as you precieve it. We understand the statement Sister of Aaron as a respectable title of her sisterhood of the Aaronites, which expresses she was an Aaronite.
Exactly who are you trying to mislead with such a statement?
Its not the matter of misleading here it is the matter of what WE as muslims believe. Again here you are interjectiing your own beliefs. This is suppose to be what does islam believe not what Christians believe
The koran says " sister of Aaron" Who were the people in the koran calling Mary "sister of Aaron", JEWS.
Who did Mohammed said called themselves after pious people..."PEOPLE OF THE OLD AGE" <--- Those same jews in the koran. For you to now tell me that muslims "do not understand Sister of Aaron as you precieve it. We understand the statement Sister of Aaron as a respectable title of her sisterhood of the Aaronites, which expresses she was an Aaronite" is a contradiction in terms, you are the one who was prepared to back the koran that the jews called themselves names like "sister of Aaron" e.t.c a sibling of an ancestor that was not their real life contemporary sibling, I reiterate for you to show me where in the whole of judaism this was done
And we already showed how the Quran uses the same simular idiom through out its text with other people. The word Ukht in arabic has two meanings 1) Sister by blood and 2) Sister by fraternity/sisterhood
Wait a minute do you not see the commentary, the conversation in the koran was about jews talking to Mary, the jews were the one calling Mary
"sister of Aaron", where is this idiom in judaism?
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I see, according to you Mary was put into the care of Zechariah which makes him her uncle as a guardian and her as his daughter, and since he is a descendant of Aaron this makes her a "sister of aaron" impressive deduction but...your koran states Mary is a literal "sister of harun", when Mohammed was confronted about this lie in the koran he said another lie that..The (people of the old age) used to give names (to their persons) after the names of Apostles and pious persons who had gone before them. The onus is on you to prove that the jews had this idiom, if it is in there spit it out.
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Nope. Go back and read what I said. I stated her uncle or aunt was one of Elizabeth's parents, thus reject your statement. You not paying attention.
Please listen to yourself...her uncle or aunt was one of Elizabeth's parents...so what would that make Zechariah who is the father of Elizabeth. according to you who was looking after her?
Zacheriah was the father of Elizabeth ? Wow!! you want to study islam but you dont even know your own Bible. Lets see what the Bible says.
It seems you have no idea what I am trying to do (read my post above again carefully, and tell me if you do not see the questions I was asking you?), why all of a sudden do you rush off to the bible as the authority when you believe you have spotted a mistake? so you agree the bible is the authority, if it is the authority what business does Amram have being the father of Moses, Aaron, and Mary the mother of Jesus in the koran? Would you care to point us to where in the koran it mentions Elizabeth? If Mary is the cousin of Elizabeth and being looked after by Zechariah who do you think Elizabeth is to a mindset that has never read the bible?
I was trying to show you a logical fallacy in your thinking, notice the statement at the end
"according to you" Mary was put into the care of Zechariah (what makes you think I believe this?), which makes him her guardian, therefore her uncle, therefore her as his daughter (for her to qualify as a sister of Aaron) which equally makes Elizabeth his daughter since they are cousins, but the point was lost on you so you scream go back to sunday school.
This is what this is all about:
In the Quran Maryam was addressed as " Sister of Aaron"
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this is Jewish idiom
Since you claim to be jewish, and you as you claim above that this is jewish idiom show us where in the whole of Judaism this idiom exists, you can't run away and say we muslims understand
"sister of Aaron" as a respected title of her sisterhood of the aaronites or other such nonsense, when the alledge conversation in the koran and in that sahih muslim hadith was jews talking to Mary unless those jews are talking about understanding
"sister of Aaron" as a respected title of her sisterhood of the Aaronites you are looking at a blatant lie, error and contradiction in your koran and hadiths, now show us since you claim to be jewish where this idiom is found,
If you are unable to show us this idiom in judaism you are a liar like your prophet
You forget the 114 demonic epileptic utterings you called divine suras, and you forget the message from the previous revelation that satan pretends to be an angel of light, vis a vis satan is pretending to be God
There you go again. A man who doesnt even know a simple Bible sunday school teaching. Seems you are possessed saying Zacheriah was the father of Elizabeth
This is strange, you have been to sunday school? So you have been a jew, a muslim and been to sunday school?. I will more than happily admit I made an error rather than claim I know it all, the difference between me and you is your error damns your beliefs, if that idiom doesn't exist the koran is a lie if the koran is a lie the koranic god is not the true God, you are headed for hell.
Let me get this straight, you believe the quran to be divine, you do not believe the hadith to be divine, you chose the quran over the hadith, but you need a tafsir to understand the koran, I have not yet read a tafsir that didn't incorporate hadiths, but the hadiths are not divine and could be forgeries and the tafsirs are written years after the formation of the quran and hadiths, relying on both of them , yet if the hadith contradicts the koran it is to be rejected but you need a tafsir to understand the koran which relies on hadiths.... do you see my point?
As I said before you got alot of islam to learn. But first you got to pass sunday school
Since you have been to sunday school, you know you need to take exams for it?
For someone who is claiming to be jewish and doesn't understand the two genealogies in Matthew and Luke you really have a lot of nerve asking me to go to pass sunday school.
Your right though I am not a Sunni, Salafi, Shia, I am nothing in which muslims of today call them selves that the Quran does not give any authority. I am Haneef, if you havent met one of us then, Hello Nice to Meet you.
As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: their affair is with Allah: He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did. { Quran 6:159 }..
Ibrahim was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was a Haneef Muslim (, and bowed his will to Allah's (which is Islam), and he joined not gods with Allah. Without doubt, among men, the nearest of kin to Ibrahim, are those who follow him, as are also this Prophet and those who believe: and Allah is the Protector of those who have Faith. { Quran 3:68 }
Say(Muhammad): "Allah speaketh the Truth: follow the religion of Ibrahim, a Haneef; he was not of the Pagans." { Quran 9:95 }
Find me where in the Quran it gives us authority to call our selves Sunni, Shia, Salafi, or Sufi etc other than Haneef or a Haneef Muslim ?
Regardless, they are still my brothers in faith, if they wish to follow a way other than what has been ascribed in the Quran then that is between them and our Lord.
As I suspected the majority of islam sees you as an apostate you are just another splinter group that believes it has the onus on the truth and interpretation of ilsam. The meccan pagans were the first to call themselves haneefs, I am curious since Mohammed said only one of 70 sects will be allowed into paradise what makes you think it's yours? or maybe that is a fabricated hadith.
Would you like to tell us when this sura was revealed? (There is a reason for this question but I suspect it will be lost on you)
Your the Islamic expert why dont you know this ?
Is this your way of telling me you don't know?
Rememer Aisha was with Mohammed for over 10 years before his death half of those suras were in mecca and the other half in medina, again I ask you do you know when that sura was revealed?
It is a sahih hadith not contradicted in the koran, the whole abrogation nonsense fits in well with being eaten by a goat, the suckling of an adult was written on the same piece of paper that was eaten by a goat, the hadiths of Muslim, Abu dawood, Malik are filled with such stupidity yet it is not in the koran, the hadiths even give the valid reasons why it is not in the koran, but you chose to disbelieve it, keep deluding yourself.
While your fishing for the answer for the dating of that Surah , you might as well find out the dating of Surah 24 , then go find out the date period of stoning in hadith.
A haneef ah yes I remember meeting one of you, he was trying to tell me that Aisha didn't suckle adults I tried to show him the hadiths but he wouldn't listen, it was very sad he was looking forward to entry into that eternal brothel you call jannah.
Maybe you should pat yourself on the back for being so clever to ask me to find the date of a hadith
written 200 yrs+ after the facts.