It was reported our prophet said "...the first meal of the people of Paradise will be Extra-lobe (caudate lobe) of fish-liver...." is this literal ? Absolutely not. How do we know ? The Quran tells us that the food we will recieve in the here after will RESEMBLE that of the sustenance of this dunyah. This was explained here with the application of the Quran to the Hadeeth
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic ... 8598#38598
This was the quesiton I posted to h20:
Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 55, Number 546:
What is the first portent of the Hour? What will be the first meal taken by the people of Paradise? Why does a child resemble its father, and why does it resemble its maternal uncle"
This is Mohammed's response:
The first portent of the Hour will be a fire that will bring together the people from the east to the west; the first meal of the people of Paradise will be Extra-lobe (caudate lobe) of fish-liver. As for the resemblance of the child to its parents: If a man has sexual intercourse with his wife and gets discharge first, the child will resemble the father, and if the woman gets discharge first, the child will resemble her
By telling us that there is documentation that the jews tested Mohammed he is indirectly saying he believes this hadith, he is then indirectly saying he believes fish-liver will be eaten in paradise, and the reason why a child resembles the father is because of emission from him first or the mother because of emission from her first, this is nothing more than would be expected from a superstitious mind albeit with a vivid imagination, not from God. But will he now claim this hadith is a fabrication?
Would you care to show us where this hadith contradicts the koran, itself or other hadiths?
Are you sure you are objectively looking for conflicts with the koran and other hadiths or conflicts with your conscience.
This is h20's reply on the thread:
Hmm interesting. I read "Extra-lobe (caudate lobe) of fish-liver" you read "only fish-liver". All this food talk is making me hungry I think I will go to the Sushi resturant and order some fish-liver, you should try it it taste really good and is healthy for you yummyyy !
At no point in the whole article did he state that he thought the fish was figurative, it is only in this post that he submits this idea. The manner in which he ridicules his own scripture tells a great deal about his motives.
This is what he had to say on the next post in that article:
The Meat (lahm) of paradise will resemble that of the meat of this world but they will not be the same thing.
Now he is trying to make a case on this thread that resemble is figurative making a complete mockery of the context. I am amazed how much he is willing to twist hadiths and koran to suit his own interpretations.
This is h20's 'explanation'
...As for the resemblance of the child to its parents: If a man has sexual intercourse with his wife and gets discharge first, the child will resemble the father, and if the woman gets discharge first, the child will resemble her...."
Well for a fact the male sperm determines the gender of the child. As for whom the child will resemble most it is based on the strongest genes bewteen the male and female.
I then showed him a very similar hadith from sahih muslim Book 03 Number 0614:
Thauban, the freed slave of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him), said: While I was standing beside the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) one of the rabbis of the Jews came and said: Peace be upon you, O Muhammad. I pushed him back with a push that he was going to fall. Upon this he said: Why do you push me? I said: Why don't you say: O Messenger of Allah? The Jew said: We call him by the name by which he was named by his family. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: My name is Muhammad with which I was named by my family. The Jew said: I have come to ask you (something). The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Should that thing be of any benefit to you, if I tell you that? He (the Jew) said: I will lend my ears to it. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) drew a line with the help of the stick that he had with him and then said: Ask (whatever you like). Thereupon the Jew said: Where would the human beings be on the Day when the earth would change into another earth and the heavens too (would change into other heavens)? The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: They would be in darkness beside the Bridge. He (the Jew) again said: Who amongst people would be the first to cross (this bridge)? He said: They would be the poor amongst the refugees. The Jew said: What would constitute their breakfast when they would enter Paradise? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: A caul of the fish-liver. He (the Jew) said. What would be their food after this? He (the Holy Prophet) said: A bullock which was fed in the different quarters of Paradise would be slaughtered for them. He (the Jew) said: What would be their drink? He (the Holy Prophet) said: They would be given drink from the fountain which is named "Salsabil". He (the Jew) said: I have come to ask you about a thing which no one amongst the people on the earth knows except an apostle or one or two men besides him. He (the Holy Prophet) said: Would it benefit you if I tell you that? He (the Jew) said: I would lend ears to that. He then said: I have come to ask you about the child. He (the Holy Prophet) said: The reproductive substance of man is white and that of woman yellow, and when they have sexual intercourse and the male's substance prevails upon the female's substance, it is the male child that is created by Allah's Decree, and when the substance of the female prevails upon the substance contributed by the male, a female child is formed by the Decree of Allah. The Jew said: What you have said is true; verily you are an Apostle. He then returned and went away. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: He asked me about such and such things of which I have had no knowledge till Allah gave me that (Sahih Muslim, Book 003, Number 0614)
Compare with the hadith with Abn Allah
Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 55, Number 546:
What is the first portent of the Hour? What will be the first meal taken by the people of Paradise? Why does a child resemble its father, and why does it resemble its maternal uncle"
This is Mohammed's response:
The first portent of the Hour will be a fire that will bring together the people from the east to the west; the first meal of the people of Paradise will be Extra-lobe (caudate lobe) of fish-liver. As for the resemblance of the child to its parents: If a man has sexual intercourse with his wife and gets discharge first, the child will resemble the father, and if the woman gets discharge first, the child will resemble her."
What do you think Mohammed is talking about gender or resemblance?
To which surprise surprise he never replied. But he is now giving the impression to the audience and his muslim brother that he answered.
This is the post in question:
Again the reason why I chose hadiths is they make logic sense of koranic verses, this does not contradict the koran at all, are you being truthful that this verse on it's own makes logical sense to you? the hadiths expose islam for the fraud it is.
Sahih Muslim Number 6390: `Abdullah (b. Mas'ud) reported that Allah's Messenger ... said: "Verily your creation is on this wise. The constituents of one of you are collected for forty days in his mother's womb in the form of blood [sperm?], after which it becomes a clot of blood in another period of forty days. Then it becomes a lump of flesh and forty days later Allah sends his angel to it ..."
This does not contradict the koran that is why it is a sahih, since you are of the opinion I am quoting hadiths that contradict the koran I would like you to show me where they do. Sperm does not survive in the mother's womb for 40 days, according to Mohammed 120 days later the sperm is now a lump of flesh the word is alaqa (you interpret it as a thing that clings) and means something that can be chewed like a piece of meat. 120 days later the foetus does not look like anything that can be chewed, from your website source by the 60th day the foetus has a rounded head body and limbs hardly a piece of meat that can be chewed like plasticine.
and this is H20's reply:
Now that is indeed a contradiction to the Quran. But as for me I do not read hadith in english nor the Quran nor the Bible. This is what the hadith says in Arabic of the phrase..Verily the creation of everyone of you accumulates inside its mother for fourty days and then (later) it becomes in that a thing that clings, Likwise that (thing) then (later) becomes into a chewing...
He basically said as he has said with every single koranic translation we have showed him that the interpreter made an error, and couldn't translate arabic properly.
H20 is giving the impression to the audience and his muslim brother that he has thoroughly answered all questions that has been posed to him, I decided to post my questions and his replies to show exactly how h20 'explains' islam in light of the koran and hadiths.
I hope you take the time to read those other posts I made refence to. I do not reject hadeeth if that is what you may have thought, UNLESS it contradicts the Quran. I have no need to use them when I have the Quran to use freely, as the Prophet and ALSO his companions debated with the Quran.
This has been a recurring tactic H20 has been using on this forum. I seriously doubt that he wants you to read his replies as you can see from some of his posts, but he hopes you don't bother, and never "call his bluff"
Liberate wrote: You are the self proclaimed arabic linguistics expert, everybody I have shown has said it looks like a name of someone, but should be written Sami. It looks to me and all the arabic speakers I have shown that it is the tafsir of someone. Who is this someone called Samiy Abdullah (I find it a bit amusing why you put down the translation of the name abdullah) You know perfectly well it is someone's name, who is this someone?, where did you get the tafsir?, why won't you show us where you got this tafsir? what exactly are you scared of?
Should be written Sami ?
سمي = seen,meem,ya'a (smy) w/vowels "SaMiY" pron. sa-mee. Why dont you invite them here so we can talk in Arabic rather than in english. I am am sure it will be clear to them then.
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Scared ? :roll: , you amuse me thats why. The name "Abdullah", beautiful name
it is an honor for anyone to have a name like that. Yes I do know its someones name. I am sure everybody such as my own brothers and sisters figured it out except for you.
Considering your previous responses, I guess this will be like getting blood from a stone?