Christian/Muslim ThreadsIslam respects women!H2O wrote: I think you have seriously misunderstood the concept and nature of Christianity. First of all, there is no mention or concept in the New Testament on Christian countries, Christianity is a spiritual religion, with an emphasis on mission, conversion and lifestyle, there is no mention of Christian politic, invasion or suppression. The historical distortion of this concept in the fourth century, when imperial Christology was instituted finds no origin in the Bible. Concerning, the matter of culture, the Bible does not propose any specific culture, however, holy and moral lifestyle is fundamental. Looking at Paul’s letter there is the issue of contextualisation, which enables a Christian to live like a Jew, among Jews and as free from the law among Gentiles (1 Cor.9: 19-23), otherwise living according to God’s standard is always an obligation. It’s a fact that nominal Christianity (being Christian only by name) is the greatest enemy of Christianity, and this category is condemned by the New Testament Scriptures (2 Tim.3: 1-5). Considering your view that every Western country is Christian and every American who attends the Jerry Springer show a Christian as well, simply reveals incredible ignorance about the nature of the Christian religion. Jesus states it clearly, that standard is a significant factor for those who will escape hell fire (Matthew 7: 21-23) (25: 31-46). A true Christian is a follower of Jesus, in other words he will produce fruits of holiness and he will persevere to the end (Matt.13: 1-23). As James states: our works show our faith (Jam.2: 18-19), in the same way as Jesus stated: a false prophet will be recognized by his fruits (Matt.7: 15-20), rape of female slaves as in case of Muhammad, does certainly not fit the standard found within the Christian religion. What I mean is: statements prove nothing, a Christian who lives a double standard has denied his faith (2 Tim.3: 5) (Tit.1: 16). Thus if Christians join the Jerry Springer show who have engaged in exchanging wives or husbands, these according to Scripture would not be accepted or recognized as followers of Jesus, in other words Christians. Remember this is a core element of Christianity, sinful living and practice disproves your religion, the New Testament calls any such person a liar: “If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth”(1 John 1: 6), why? The apostle John continues: “No-one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No-one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him”(1 John 2: 6). Notice, that John, who is an apostle, does not even suggest that these people have lost their faith, he rather clarifies that these individuals were never of the faith. According to this, how many Americans are Christians? Can we truly say that USA is a Christian nation? How about Europe? If you live in Europe you quickly realize that most people are or either Atheists or Gnostics. Of those who call themselves Christians, most would be traditional, and often nominal. Keep in your mind as well, that even those who advocate universalism (a more Hindu concept), such as the famous John Hix would claim to be a Christian. I even have hard-core atheists in my extended family who funny enough use the title Christian in case an Asian Hindu or Muslim asks them about their faith. As the New Testament teaches the only way to recognize a true Christian is by observing the fruits of change and transformation. H2O writes: Kai responds: In other words you agree that this particular Hadith refers to sexual practice, or what? H2O continues: [
Kai responds: Then, in fact you are saying, that the particular hadith refers to sexual engagement between a husband’s wife with a male husband’s friend, a female, an animal or a thing.Anyway you did not answer the real question, say, the particular Hadith was uttered by Muhammad, it still does not prohit a women to sleep, with a man, female or thing, say the husband does not accept his, her’s or its friendship.The Hadith clearly seems to say, that a women should not entertain anyone in the bed, whom the husband dislikes (dislikes is the matter her), then the opposite must be true, who is the one who the husband likes. Since the hushand has a right over her body, he will have his say over the matter, otherwise she will be beaten. I would say: not exactly a standard of God in any way or direction. H2O continues: Kai responds: In other words you agree that this particular Hadith refers to sexual practice, or what? H2O continues: Kai responds: Then, in fact you are saying, that the particular hadith refers to sexual engagement between a husband’s wife with a male husband’s friend, a female, an animal or a thing.Anyway you did not answer the real question, say, the particular Hadith was uttered by Muhammad, it still does not prohit a women to sleep, with a man, female or thing, say the husband does not accept his, her’s or its friendship.The Hadith clearly seems to say, that a women should not entertain anyone in the bed, whom the husband dislikes (dislikes is the matter her), then the opposite must be true, who is the one who the husband likes. Since the hushand has a right over her body, he will have his say over the matter, otherwise she will be beaten. I would say: not exactly a standard of God in any way or direction. H2O continues:
Kai responds: Well possibly you are correct, this particular Hadith does contradict the Quran, that however, does not deny the fact that Muhammad atleast at one point may have allowed this practice. Concerning a WOMENS INFERIORITY and WIFE BEATING H2O attempts to explain away the matter (I will not quote the whole text of H2O, in case you want to make an assessment look it up yourself, but I will make a few points): H2O writes:
H2O wrote:
Kai responds: In other words, Loki was correct, unless we subdue our wives we risk a internal rebellion. I have a few points to criticise here. First of all, I doubt you are married H2O (correct me if you want). If devotion from your wife, is a demand for a man’s shopping and feeding, then you marriage is simply built upon demanded exptance, in other words If I do this, I expect you to do that. You even ridicule Christian men who recognise that women are not inferior, that women do not need to be controlled or bought with romantic merit; if this is Islam, then your religion falls short. Secondly, you need to read our Scripture to see that in case of a Christian couple, there is no need to control a wife or subdue her. A man’s position, even though being the head of his household, builds on love and sacrifice, rather than a means to subdue your wife or keep her blinded ingnorant within a house, behind a merit of bought things. Actually, H2O, what you are stating here, is both insane and sick to be straight forward honest. I trust my wife as she trusts me, we follow the Christian standards, and I can tell you that there is no need for me to subdue her (even though I admit I could be a bit more romantic at times) or buy her with things or basic needs. You seem to clarify that in Islam, males are not to trust women, a soon you seem to indicate that before you know they sleep around to find more sexual satisfication (you seem to consider women as animals). I find this attitude to lower a women’s status down, and confirms effectively that a women in the view of Islam is inferior. In other words unless she is subdued, she engages in animal like habits (that is actual what you are stating). On the other hand, according to Islam, men are allowed to rape female marry up to four wives, engage in sex with female slaves, perform muta marriages, reward with up to seventy womens when they reached paradise. Looking at the full picture, it seems more like a opposite reality, that rather than keeping your wife in a leash (did I spell this correctly), or a chain, you should consider tying up yourself. Seems like you leave us no choice be a wimp or be a sexual animal. This is exactly where transformation comes in, the sign and evidence of life, which proves who you really are. If your Muslim ladies are not able to live a godly life without being subdued, blinded and keept ignorant, there is very little reason to believe that Islam offers any actual transformation in a women life, in that case the only way to obedience is the subduing force of her husband, not a change of her inner life. In case of a man, he is permitted in raping captives and slaves, in one particular point of Islamic history he was allowed even to engage in temporary marriage, actually prostitution. Thus from the nature and origin of Islam, we can assess that the ungodly elements, which a women is to abstain from are fully permissable for a male. |
🌈Pride🌈 goeth before Destruction
When 🌈Pride🌈 cometh, then cometh Shame