In the Name of Allaah...
Now I have heard all sides of this argument claiming that it is translated as "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god" Greek Scholars have refuted this claim, let us see for ourselves what the Scriptures clearly say about this verse:
"En arche en ho logos, kai ho logos en pros ton theon, kai theos en ho logos" which means exactly:In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the "Word was God" unquote
Hello omega...it seems you have forgotten that Jesus peace be upon him spoke Aramaic and the closes to that is Hebrew so Greek is just a translation of what was truly spoken which means it wasn't the word of Jesus. So you say Greek Scholars have refuted this claim but I say the Greek scholars didn't translate from Aramaic like they should. John 1:1 "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God."
This claim has problems because by this verse it is assumed that Jesus was the "word" and since the word was God and became flesh, Jesus is God. Hmm...omega...Did you know that John reproduced in his gospel the same saying that was uttered not by John but by A Philo of Alexandria, years before Jesus or John were born. It is therefore completely unlikely that Philo was even remotely referring to Jesus so I wonder who could Philo be referring too.
There is also another reason for not capitalizing the "G" in John 1:1, considering the Greek of the above verse which disproves the assertion that Jesus is referred to as God in the verse. The first time the word God is used, the Greek is "TON THEOS", which means "a god".
Yet the stronger Greek word "HO THEOS" which means "Divine God" was used for satan in 2 Corinthians 4:4. The NIV Bible Author wrote "god" for Satan instead of "God", which the word itself literally means The God. The second time the word God is used,"....and the word was God," the word for God is TONTHEOS, which also means "a god".
The West evolved a system of capital and small letters non-existent in Greek. The God, HOTHEOS is translated as God with a capital G, whereas Tontheos, which means A or ANY God is translated with a small g, god. For instance Moses is called a god in Exodus 6:7 "And the LORD said to Moses, "See, I make you as God to Pharaoh; and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet. 2 You shall speak all that I command you; and Aaron your brother shall tell Pharaoh to let the people of Israel go out of his land."
Jesus being God by putting capital G for both whereas it doesn't belong in the case of the "word".
The translators described Jesus being God by putting capital G for both whereas it doesn't belong in the case of the "word".
omega Posted: ""En arche en ho logos, kai ho logos en pros ton theon, kai theos en ho logos" which means exactly:In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the "Word was God"
Again these translators like to play with words. So can we trust the current English Translations? Given that facts above about verse John 1:1, how can we expect from an ordinary English speaking Christian who wants to spread his religion with all his heart honestly and faithfully to understand this lie of capitalizing the small "g" in John 1:1 and other verses, and not capitalizing the the MANY "g"s in the same exact words used for Jesus throughout the Old and New Testaments?
omega I have a question that you might can answer. In the "original" Greek manuscripts (Did the disciple John speak Greek?), "The Word" is only described as being "ton theos"(divine/a god) and not as being "ho theos" (The Divine/The God). A more correct translation would be "A more faithful and correct translation of this verse would thus read: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was divine"
omega, what is the difference between saying "the word was God," and between saying "the word was a god (divine)"? Are they not the same? Far from it! For instance the bible says:
"I have said, Ye (the Jews) are gods; and all of you are children of the most High"
Psalms 82:6:
"And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made you a god to Pharaoh"
Exodus 7:1
"the god of this world (the Devil) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not."
2 Corinthians 4:4
the author of John tells us that God is greater than Jesus. If the author of this Gospel did indeed wish us to understand that Jesus and God are "one and the same," then can someone be greater than himself? Similarly,
With that said, the author of John tells us that God is greater than Jesus. If the author of this Gospel did indeed wish us to understand that Jesus and God are "one and the same," then can someone be greater than himself? Similarly,
"Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." John 14:28
omega, Can someone "go" to himself? Can someone be "greater" than himself?
"These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:" John 17:1.
If John meant to tell us that "Jesus and God are one and the same" then shall we understand from this verse that God is saying to Himself "Self, glorify me so that I may glorify myself"?
again "While I (Jesus) was with them in the world, I kept them in thy (God's) name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." John 17:12.
If the author of John wanted us to believe that Jesus and God are one person then are we to understand from this verse that God is saying to Himself "Self, while I was in the world I kept them in your name, self. Those who I gave to myself I have kept ..."? Is this what the author intended us to understand from his writings?
Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world." John 17:24.
omega, did the author intend us to interpret this as "Self, I will that they also whom I have given myself be with me where I am; that they my behold my glory which I have given myself, for I loved myself before the foundation of the world"?
All of these proves that Jesus isn't God Almighty which means Jesus had a beginning. Jesus was a Man born in the womb of his mother. Remember that.
Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
John 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
The Qur'an confirms Jesus as such a man, messenger, messiah and a prophet from Allaah (God).
"The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: 'Be.' And he was."
The noble Qur'an, Aal-Umran(3):59 "O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allâh aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allâh and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rûh) created by Him; so believe in Allâh and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allâh is (the only) One Ilâh (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allâh is AllSufficient as a Disposer of affairs. (An-Nisa 4:171)"
The Messiah ['Iesa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary), was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother [Maryam (Mary)] was a Siddiqah [i.e. she believed in the words of Allâh and His Books (see Verse 66:12)]. They both used to eat food (as any other human being, while Allâh does not eat). Look how We make the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) clear to them, yet look how they are deluded away (from the truth). (Al-Ma'idah 5:75)
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