Homosexual Discussion ForumHomosexuality and the Biblejustforfun000, the Bible as History was published in the late 50's; the Discovery Channel has boadcast a multitude of programs that establish the historical accuracy of the Bible. If you are really interested in this subject and not just being a troll there is a plethora of information on the Internet and in any good library.
You posted that the Bible contradicts itself and used one passage taken out of context to establish a fallacious thesis. I addressed your one passage in its full context. Tradition is not Law. Let me give you an example. Deuteronomy 5:12-15
12'Observe the sabbath day to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you. 13'Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you. 15'And you shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out of there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to observe the sabbath day. NAS
In order to keep this commandment Rabbi's (elders) came up with 600+ traditions to define work. The Talmud and Mishnah are a collection of the teachings of the "elders" that interpret Jewish Law commonly referred to as the Torah. What did Jesus teach concerning the "traditions of the elders"? This is also covered in this thread: Jesus on tradition. If you want to discuss traditions in general I will move that thread to an open forum and you can discuss tradition all you want. Again this thread is not the place to debate this subject.
Your assumption the Bible is contradictory without proof does not mean you are correct in your assumption. I was trying to be accomadating but if you want to get sarcastic then the subject of the inerrancy of the Bible does not belong in this forum. There is at least one thread going on this subject: Is the Bible free from errors?
What did Jesus teach concerning the "traditions of the elders"? This is also covered in this thread: Jesus on tradition.
Jesus did not cover every human behavior during His earthly ministry therefore to bring up the fact Jesus is not recorded as having specifically addressed homosexuality is an argument from silence and is in itself a fallacy. Jewish Law is found in the 1st 5 books of the Bible. Jesus did not comment on every law from every book. For example Jesus did not comment on incest, bestiality, offering children as sacrifices to idols, using 2 sets of dishes or even the dietary laws.
You did bring up Sodom and Gomorrah: justforfun000 wrote:The second half of this argument deals with Paul (Saul). A friend of mine said it best recently. He was picking apart one of the "Stickies" on this forum when someone reposted it on his. Try to fault his logic if you can, because it deals a direct blow against any authority of Paul to condemn homosexuality in the NEW testament, which is consequently, the only thing you will find.
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Yes, the American society may be growing more lenient of this sinful lifestyle, but the question is: "Is God becoming more tolerant toward homosexuality?" For an honest person, the answer to this question is easy. "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor. 6:9-10, cf. Gal. 5:19ff. and 1 Tim. 1:9ff.). "For this cause God gave them [Gentiles] up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet" (Rom 1:25-27). The Scriptures cannot be more explicit on this disputed subject.
Yes, the Bible is anti-gay. Thanks for the news flash. But did you know that all of those passages from Corinthians, Galatians, Timothy, and Romans were from Paul, who in turn was basing them on the homophobia in the Old Testament? Not one of them comes from Jesus himself. Interesting, isn't it?
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Some contend that God does not have the same feeling of disapproval of homosexuality as He did in biblical times. Consider, "For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed" (Mal. 3:6). "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever" (Heb. 13:8, cf. Matt 24:35). God does not waver on His verdict of sin. If God accepts homosexuality today, then why did He destroy Sodom and Gomorrah (Gen. 19)? Jude says, "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire" (Jude 7). God used these cities as examples of His feeling toward debauched societies. If He does not condemn homosexuality today, then He will have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah on Judgment Day, "Sorry, you should have been born in America in the 20th century; it's O.K. there." As Christians, we strongly maintain that God would never say this.
No, but Jesus might say that he who is without sin should throw the first stone, and I see people throwing an awful lot of stones at those who commit victimless sins. Of course, one might always argue that the Old Law still applies, but the Old Law also told people that it was an "abomination" to eat shrimp and lobster (Leviticus 11:10) and that you can kill your children if they swear at you (Exodus 21:17). You can't pick and choose; either you still feel that the Old Law applies (in which case I hope you haven't had the Surf 'n Turf lately and your kids are very well mannered) or you don't (in which case you shouldn't be using it to attack gays).
Alternatively, you might recognize that the Bible does not govern secular societies, but perhaps that is asking too much of a religious fanatic.
Who gave the Council of Jerusalem authority over Christianity? Jesus did: Matthew 18:18-20
18 "Truly I say to you, whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 19 "Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. 20 "For where two or three have gathered together in My name, there I am in their midst." NAS
What constitutes immoral behavior to be judged by the church? This subject cannot be addressed in a short post. However, when a Christian "practices" immoral behavior their behavior is open to sanction by the church.
Now if you have specific questions ask them and we will try to explain them in the context of what the Bible teaches. Generalities are usually inaccurate and your initial post is filled with inaccuracies concerning Christianity and the Bible.
BTW, if you are going to quote someone who supposedly made a statement on this message board quote them by name. I don't deny that some Christians are homophobic but your quote from an anonymous source does not prove anything.
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