Greetings Casey,
Thanks for your reply…
Looks like I am correct….it appears that you adhere to the Christian cult of Jehovah Witnesses (JW)….
Why not just step up to the plate and admit that you are one…?
Let’s see what you have to say…
Apple Pie wrote:
I’m glad to hear that you accept the Biblical Jesus as your Lord and Savior… Jesus is God.
Jesus never claimed to be God,
Sure He did…
in fact He said:
"Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." (John 14:28 )
Tell me this….what is the point of reference for this verse….?
Jesus said He was ONE with God, and, as the Firstfruits of the resurrection, will join us, the Sons and Daughters of God, after He has given the Kingdom over to the Father.
At which time we will all be One with God as Jesus is today.
Right on cue….
"For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." (1 Corinthians 15:25-28 )
The very idea of a Triune God is of pagan Roman origin. The doctrine was the result of compromise - and offered the attractive feature of a Jesus' removed from humanity whose Life would be impossible to emulate, thus none could ever overcome sin through Him but must be absolved through the church - through confession, etc...
Classic
JW rhetoric….
Keep it coming…
There is but one God - Whom also Jesus leads us to worship in Spirit and Truth. That monotheistic concept is stated in the Bible time and time again:
"Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear." (Isaiah 45:21-23)
And...
"Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness: I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory." (Isaiah 46:9-13)
This is the God of the Jews, which is the God of Islam, which is the God of Jesus Christ.
Again….if Yahweh is the God of Islam, then why don’t Mussulman’s take Jesus as their Lord and Savior as you stated that you did….?
I hope you're not one of the people who follow the Roman custom of making the Word of God through His prophets of none effect by taking other verses from the Bible to cancel the Authority of God by His prophets.
I’m one of those individuals that integrates the whole of scripture in order to best determine how the Creator God of the Holy Bible has revealed Himself to His creation…
I don’t pigeon-hole scriptures like
JW’s…
For God has not made His Character as expressed by Jews in the Bible a confused chaos that requires man to sort out for others, as the Nicene Council attempted to do in order to lord their authority over otherwise uncontrollable early Christians.
The goal of the Plan of Salvation is that we His Creations become One with God as Jesus became One with Him. Any doctrine that makes that impossible contradicts God's Word.
Hmmm…can you, yourself, become God…?
God's Promise of the New Covenant of Jesus Christ:
"But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more." (Jeremiah 31:33-34)
Quote:
However, would you also take the Koranic Jesus as your Lord and Savior?
"The Koranic Jesus"? I wonder if you realize what you're saying here.
Yes, I understand quite clearly….
Jesus is not our creation to apply to our religions or denominations as we see fit in order to exalt ourselves over others, rather Jesus Himself represents the salvation of all men and women through God's Everlasting Mercy.
The Jesus of the Qur'an, as His Oneness with Allah (pbuh) is acknowledged as He claimed He was One with Allah (pbuh), is my Lord and Savior just as the God of Israel (Allah) is my Lord and Savior.
So….shall I take this as a yes?
Please tell me how many Mussulman’s take Jesus as their Lord and Savior…?
Quote:
It appears from your writings that you deny the Biblical concept of a triune Creator God of the Universe, and, instead think that the Koran may aid you in your position…..is this correct…?
The Qur'an is not necessary to understand that the "Triune" creator God is a pagan concept, as illustrated above. All you need is faith in God's Word through His prophets and Jesus Christ.
Well…you claimed that the Koran was “inspired” by the same God as the Holy Bible….thus, if you are correct, then the Koran should also make statements regarding the concept of the Holy Trinity…
Now is your chance to prove your point with some ayahs…
Can you do this….?
Quote:
Would I also be correct in stating that you are a JW….?
I am a Jew on the order of Abraham, a friend of the Long-Feathered Eagle of diverse colors.
I am a virgin of the Seven Women of Revelation, I work 24/7 in the Temple of God where the Lamb of God leads me to fountains of Living Waters... I am a base and foolish servant of all, a sinner of sinners, but I keep His White Robe pulled tightly about me at all times.
I also carry a palm branch in my hand, praying for His return day and night.
Translation:
You are what is known as the Christian cult of Jehovah’s Witness (JW).
Also….please expand upon the “seven women” of Revelation for me…thanks…
Quote:
Also, if you feel that the Koran is inspired by Yahweh, then why do Mussulmans deny Jesus as their Lord and Savior, counter to what you believe….? What happened…?
Because of the Qur'an's nature of direct Revelation (and lacking the history whereby men caused them to believe in a sacrificial system through which Mercy could only be obtained) the Arab world of the Prophet's time did not REQUIRE blood to convince them of God's Mercy.
Our ancestors, on the other hand, did.
So God gave us Blood.
There are currently three major parts to the Spiritual World God has inspired through men who earnestly sought Him...
As the part to whom much has been given, much is also expected today. We're that third part mentioned below:
"Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones. And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God." (Zechariah 13:7-9)
Judeo-Christianity is the chosen part. Things will deteriorate until we return to God:
"And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes." (Ezekiel 36:23)
"Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts..." (Malachi 3:7)
We are the New Covenant generation of which He said:
"Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord." (Matthew 23:36-39)
Jesus taught us how to live godly lives before those whom God Wills to save. It's time to begin living His teachings and not just using His Name for the salvation of ourselves.
Then you have just acknowledged that they contain a “revelation” contrary to the Biblical one…
Furthermore, where are the Koranic ayahs that back up your position….?
Let me show you where the Koran proclaims Jesus to be God Almighty…
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic ... 5161#35161
And here as well…
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic ... 6109#36109
In addition, there are plenty of Revelation scriptures demonstrating that Jesus and God have interchangeable deity.
Her is one example for your consideration…
1:4 ιωαννης ταις επτα εκκλησιαις ταις εν τη ασια χαρις υμιν και ειρηνη απο του ο ων και ο ην και ο ερχομενος και απο των επτα πνευματων α εστιν ενωπιον του θρονου αυτου
iwannhs tais epta ekklhsiais tais en th asia caris umin kai eirhnh apo o wn kai o hn kai o ercomenos kai apo twn epta pneumatwn a enwpion tou qronou autou
John to the seven churches in Asia: Grace to you, and peace from the (One), Being who was and who is coming; and from the seven spirits which are before the throne of Him,
1:5 και απο ιησου χριστου ο μαρτυς ο πιστος ο πρωτοτοκος εκ των νεκρων και ο αρχων των βασιλεων της γης τω αγαπησαντι ημας και λουσαντι ημας απο των αμαρτιων ημων εν τω αιματι αυτου
kai apo ihsou cristou o martus o pistos o prwtotokos twn nekrwn kai o arcwn twn basilewn ths ghs tw agapwnti hmas kai lusanti hmas ek twn amartiwn | [hmwn] | hmwn | en tw aimati autou
and from Jesus Christ the Witness faithful, the First-born out of the dead, and the Ruler of the kings of the earth. To the (One) loving us, and having washed us from the sins of us by the blood of Him,
1:6 και εποιησεν ημας βασιλεις και ιερεις τω θεω και πατρι αυτου αυτω η δοξα και το κρατος εις τους αιωνας των αιωνων αμην
kai epoihsen hmas basileian iereis tw qew kai patri autou autw h doxa kai to kratos eis tous aiwnas | | [twn aiwnwn] | amhn
and made us kings and priests to the God and Father of Him, to Him (is) the glory and the might to the ages of the ages. Amen.
The Greeting comes simultaneously from:
1) Father……
και “and”
2) Son……
και “and”
3) Spirit
In fact, a close examination of the Greek tells us that all three entities are one in the same:
ο ων και ο ην και ο ερχομενος = “ho on kai” = Strong’s #3801. ho own kahee ho ane kahee ho er-khom'-en-os a phrase combining - ho 3588 with the present participle and imperfect of - eimi 1510 and the present participle of - erchomai 2064 by means of - kai 2532; the one being and the one that was and the one coming, i.e. the Eternal, as
a divine epithet of Christ:--which art (is, was), and (which) wast (is, was), and art (is) to come (shalt be).
Phrase occurrence: 5x
Phrase locations: Rev 1.4; 1.8; 4.8; 11.17; 16.5
Reference:
The New Strong’s Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, Red –Letter Edition, Greek Dictionary of the New Testament, James Strong, LL.D., S.T.D., John R. Kohlenberger, 3rd, p. 185
πνευματων = “pneuma” = Strong’s #4151.
An independent noncorporeal being, in contrast to a being that can be perceived by the physical senses, spirit. from pneo 4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or
(divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit:--ghost, life, spirit(-ual, -ually), mind. Compare psuche 5590.
References:
A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian Literature, Third Edition, (BDAG), Frederick Willaim Danker, Walter Bauers. pp. 832 - 836
The New Strong’s Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, Red –Letter Edition, Greek Dictionary of the New Testament, James Strong, LL.D., S.T.D., John R. Kohlenberger, 3rd, p. 205
ιησου χριστου = “Iesous Christos ” = Strong’s #2424. Of Hebrew origin (Yhowshuwa` 3091); Jesus (i.e. Jehoshua),
the name of our Lord and two (three) other Israelites:--Jesus. Or Yhowshua {yeh-ho-shoo'-ah}; from 'Yhovah' (3068 ) and 'yasha`' (3467); Jehovah-saved; Jehoshua (i.e. Joshua), the Jewish leader:--Jehoshua, Jehoshuah, Joshua. Compare 'Howshea`' (1954), 'Yeshuwa`' (3442). from 'hayah' (1961); (the) s
elf-Existent or Eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God:--Jehovah, the Lord. Compare 'Yahh' (3050), 'Yhovih' (3069). a variation of 'Yhovah' (3068 ) (used after ''Adonay' (136), and pronounced by Jews as ''elohiym' (430), in order to prevent the repetition of the same sound, since they elsewhere pronounce 'Yhovah' (3068 ) as ''Adonay' (136)):--God.
Strong’s #5547.
The personal name ascribed to Jesus, Christ . From - chrio 5548; anointed, i.e. the Messiah,
an epithet of Jesus:--Christ.
References:
A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian Literature, Third Edition, (BDAG), Frederick Willaim Danker, Walter Bauers. pp. 471 – 472; 1091
The New Strong’s Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, Red –Letter Edition, Greek Dictionary of the New Testament, James Strong, LL.D., S.T.D., John R. Kohlenberger, 3rd, pp. 120; 273
Thus, as you can clearly see, this prime example from the opening chapter of the Book of Revelation shows us quite nicely that the message greeting, for the entire Book that follows, emanates from a triune entity.
Furthermore, we can see that each “portion” of the triune greeting comes from Jesus Himself.
Take care…