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"O followers of the Book! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth. The Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and His Word, which He communicated to Marium. And a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector."
(Surah 4:171)
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"The following are taken from two messages I posted on different forums in the past with some minor corrections. It should give enough material to discuss our understanding of what Trinity is, and why it is a believe in One God, and not three gods."
I will explain to you why you should believe in three gods, god the Father, god the Son, god the Holy Spirit.
"(1) All Christians believe that Jesus was born of the Blessed Virgin Mary. they also believe that although Jesus has two natures (divine and human),(2) He is one Divine Person. Since this one Person was born of Mary, (3) she fully is the Mother of the one Divine Person: in short, the Mother of God."
1) All Muslims believe that Jesus was born of Mary, we believe in his miraculous birth with the modern day Anglican Churches don't. Any one who claims Islam has religion, if he does not believe in Jesus, he is not Muslim. And you will not need a scholar to tell you that.
2) Do you know what the word person means, and the nature of a "person"? A person is limited by its nature; even the Prophets were limited. God approved every action before it happened. You claim that Jesus was "Divine" and "Human". But if he was "Divine" them he was not "Human". The logic says, person can not be "Unlimited" and then "Limited". He can only be one, either limited or Unlimited but not at the same time. When Jesus was on earth, he was in human form, o he was limited, he says "Call no man on earth, your Father, the Father is in heaven." When Jesus said this phrase, he was in the form of man, so he can not be the Father.
3) I thought Christian concept of God was that he is not born he is Alpha & Omega, First & Last, yet god was born, and his mother was Mary. That' blasphemy against God and his Mightiness. The Birth of Jesus is in the further support that Jesus was a normal Human being, and not divines in any way, other then his title of Prophet. And according to the every Christian sect man has inherited the "Original Sin", and every child born has inherited this stain of imperfection, so according to this belief Jesus also inherited the same curse that every other human has inherited. So according to you God died for sin of the mankind, but who will die for his sin?
"The problem is, that most Christians have a hazy idea of what Trinity really means. Most Christians asked to explain Trinity would not have a clue, where to start. It is not important for our salvation that we can explain everything as long as the basis is right, salvation by faith in Jesus alone."
So you are saying that has long has you have faith in Jesus and his Cruci-fiction, Death, Resurrection, you have the salvation. You have the free license to rape, murder, steal, and verbally abuse, anyone you like, and you are not responsible for it. Cause according to your belief Jesus has paid for every body’s sins; we only have to except his resurrection to save our self from the hellfire.
Just another point, Christians claim that the Son-of-God died on the cross, but don' you think that is a bit edgy when you consider the verse "these three are one". Which means that Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are one in number. So who died on the cross was it the Father, Son, or the Holy Spirit? Or was it that God was dead altogether. Explain to me how can God die, and if He had died who bought him back to life? Or was God not dead at all He was just pretending presence of the Jewish and Roman crowd that He has died. And if he was pretending, then God has deceived all the Christiandom.
"The bible makes a clear distinction between Jesus the Son of God, Jesus the Man and God. God cannot be divided, He is not three, but one. If you say, that Mary is God's Mother, than you say that God has a beginning, and for that matter, an end. He becomes a creation. Even to say, that Mary mothered God would be wrong, as this implies that God had to learn making Him imperfect, but God is perfect."
The Catholic Encyclopedia states:
The Trinity is the term employed to signify the central doctrine of the Christian religion -- the truth that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these Three Persons being truly distinct one from another. Thus, in the words of the Athanasian Creed: "the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God." In this Trinity of Persons the Son is begotten of the Father by an eternal generation, and the Holy Spirit proceeds by an eternal procession from the Father and the Son. Yet, notwithstanding this difference as to origin, the Persons are co-eternal and co-equal: all alike are uncreated and omnipotent.
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm)
Impossibility upon impossibility, irregularity upon irregularity, I will summarize the above to see if I can get a penny out of the penniless man.
… in the unity of the Godhead … Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit … Three Persons being truly distinct one from another … "the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God." … the Son is begotten of the Father … the Persons are co-eternal and co-equal: all alike are uncreated and omnipotent.
Father
Son
Holy Spirit.
Co-eternal
Co-eternal
Co-eternal
Co-equal
Co-equal
Co-equal
Uncreated
Uncreated
Uncreated
Omnipotent.
Omnipotent.
Omnipotent.
God
God
God
From the above data produced by the Catholic Encyclopedia I have faithfully have attempted to draw the above chart accurately has possible. I will carry out certain checks to verify the soundness of it. According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, "the Son is begotten of the Father", at this very moment of this discussion it is not relevant to scrutinize the terminology used in this passage, nor I am interested in to find out what it exactly means. It is irrelevant what it means, but the importance in here is laid on the fact that "the Son is begotten of the father", which means at some point God Almighty decided to beget Jesus, doesn’t matter how? He was begotten, but if we look in the chart we get a different picture altogether. According to the chart above the Son is "Uncreated" just like the rest two, this inconsistency is rather obvious. Therefore it is in directly in conflict with that "the Son is begotten of the father", cause this means that at some stage Jesus did not exist, and he was somehow bought to existence through the act of "begetting".
Now looking at from a different perspective will further shed more light on this blasphemous Tri-unity, and will help to expose such a dubious doctrine ever attributed to the God Al-mighty. According to the above chart, the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit share the same attributes with each other, Co-equal, Co- eternal, Uncreated, Omnipotent, so why is one called the Father? And the other Son-of-god yet he was always there with the father, Son was "Uncreated", or at least that is the belief, and the same applies to the Holy Spirit.
It is mentioned that these three are, "Three Persons being truly distinct one from another" in their physical nature, therefore is it not fair to conclude that Christians believe in three gods while categorically stating that they believe in one God. These three, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit share same attributes has one another, but are still distinct in their out look. Suppose there are three twins, Tom, Dick, and Harry, they all share absolutely similar characteristics, there is no difference in there behavior or anything else, except that they all look different then each other. What would you say, they all are one or will you judge them individually, believing in three different people then in one. Common sense tells us even though these three, Tom, Dick, Harry, are similar in their characteristics but they still are different human being. If we apply the same analogy to the members of Trinity it is in perfectly valid, which leads us to believe that Christians believe in THREE GODS and not in the existence of one God.
By analyzing the chart with the Biblical teaching more inconsistencies in the Doctrine of Trinity can be observed. Which further can help us to realize the irrational of this Doctrine. I will only include a few examples to put forward my evidence in refutation or your claims. The Doctrine of Trinity teaches that all three, Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are Co-equal, Co-eternal, Uncreated and Omnipotent, but I found a lot of evidence which is in conflict with this belief held by Christians.
For instance in the Gospel of John chapter fourteen verse twenty-eight (John 14:28), Jesus say " I go to the Father; for the father is greater than I." This verse unequivocally refutes the claim that the Son (Jesus) is in the same rank has God.
And you might want to argue that in this verse the word greater doe not necessarily mean being greater or better in authority or status. Then please take notice of John, chapter thirteen, verse sixteen, (John 13:16) where Jesus said "I tell you the truth, no servant is I greater that his Master nor is a Messenger greater then the one who sent him." In the Gospel of John Jesus confirms that he has been sent by the God Al-Mighty so that the Jews may believe in the only one true God. John Chapter 17 verse 3 state this belief in an explicit manner " And this is eternal life, that they may know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou has sent."
It is clear from this that Jesus did not believe in his equal-ness to God. He merely believed that he was a messenger of God, who by his own admission he is inferior to the Mighty-ness of God. The church has forced the Doctrine of Trinity on Jesus and he is clearly not in favor of this Hellenistic Doctrine.
"Jesus, the man, on the other hand had to learn obedience through the things he suffered and was perfected (Heb 5/8). Why do you think, that his name is called Emmanuel, God with us? Why was his name not Jehova? The reason is simple, Jehova is the name of God, Immanuel the name of the Son of God. If you try to divide the trinity in three separate distinct persons, you don't have trinity anymore, but tritheism."
According to my knowledge of the Bible only place Jesus is referred to has Emmanuel is when the angle of the Lord visits Mary to give her the good news of the birth of Jesus; there the angle states that "he shall be called Emmanuel". But there is no other place in the Bible with which Jesus is referred has "Emmanuel". Therefore I doubt in the incident taking place, cause not even once he has been referred has such has the angle of the Lord Prophesied.
The Quran, Chapter Al-Imran verse forty-five (3:45) states the truth concerning the name of Jesus: "Behold! The angels said: "O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honor in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to God;
The phrase in Arabic which denote this meaning are "Iss-mu hul maseeh-hu Isa", has far has my knowledge of the Arabic goes the word "Iss-mu" denotes the meanings, "name" and has "title". And in this verse the both meaning are perfectly valid because of the name, Jesus, and the title of Jesus, the Christ. Where has the Bible is in error when it states that Jesus will be called Emmanuel.
With regards to term "the Son of God" What doe it mean? Does it mean that God Almighty had a sexual encounter with Mary to beget Jesus, or does it mean that God created Jesus with a miracle?
Christian use the term "the Only Begotten Son of God". What do you mean by the statement? If I say David is "the Only Begotten Son of Ali" how would you understand this? I am sure that you will understand it to mean that Ali have performed a sexual act to get the only begotten son, David. So when the Christian say "the only begotten Son of God" that means God performed a sexual act with Marry to have his only begotten, Jesus. Which is blasphemy against God.
Jehovah’s Witnesses in one of their publication "The guidance of God. Our Way to Paradise". Give their account of belief in "Son of God", the author of that booklet try’s to persuade the Muslims that the term "Son of God" is to be understood figuratively not literally. I have no problem accepting this, but the Bible passage ("the Only Begotten Son of God") in question does not agree with the figurative meaning, it imposes the literal meaning of the Christian perspective. The early Christians also understood this passage in its literal meaning.
So what does this term really mean? To answer these questions we will have to analyze the entire Bible and see if we can arrive at a different understanding of this phrase "Son-of-God". The term Son-Of-God can have various meanings, but the one understood by the Christians is in the Context of this phrase "the only begotten Son-of-God". If I am correct then it was Saint Jerome who is the first person to use the term "Only begotten Son-of-God" in his translation of the Bible from Hebrew to Greek. And since then this term has become a standard expression in every Christians Doctrine. The Greek term for "Begotten" in the ancient Greek is "gennao {ghen-nah-o} as found in Matthew 1:2. In verses under consideration, the word used is not "gennao", instead "monogenes" {mon-og-en-ace}. It is a Greek word which conveys the meaning "Unique" and not "begotten". Thus the correct meaning would be that Jesus the "Unique Son". Meaning that he is the only one of that kind, and every Christian knows that birth of Jesus was a result of a miracle performed by God.
Many Christians still will insist that Jesus is the only literal Son of God, yet the bible does not support such beliefs. So here is a short introduction to SONS OF GOD: The Bible ascribes sons by the tons to God. (a) 'Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the SON OF GOD." LUKE 3:38 (b) "That the SONS OF GOD saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took wives of all which they chose. ". . When the SONS OF GOD came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." GENESIS 6:2 and 4 (c) ". Thus- saith the Lord, Israel is MY SON even my FIRSTBORN." EXODUS 4:22 (d) ". And Ephraim is my FIRSTBORN," JEREMIAH 31:9 (e) ". Thou (o David) ART MY SON; this day have I (God) BEGOTTEN thee. " PSALMS 2:7 (TONS A ton is 2000 lbs. weight, that is about a thousand kilograms.) ("FIRST BORN:" How can there be two "firstborns"?) ("BEGOTTEN" How can God beget David at the age of forty? "This day'?) (f) "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the SONS OF GOD. ' ROMANS 8:14
Now you have the "Sons by the Tons" will you not include these "Sons" in your Doctrine of Trinity? If you believe that Jesus was the Only Son of God then you were wrong.
Finally the conclusion we arrive is that the term Son-of-God is to be understood figuratively and not literally, has it I understood by many Christians. The JW have the correct belief about this terminology, their failure lays in the fact that they insist that the term "Only begotten Son-of-God" is authentic otherwise they are on the right path.
"They say: "God hath begotten a son!" - Glory be to Him! He is self- sufficient! His are all things in the heavens and on earth! No warrant have ye for this! Say ye about God what ye know not? Say: "Those who invent a lie against God will never prosper." A little enjoyment in this world! - And then, to us will be their return, then shall we make them taste the severest penalty for their blasphemies. "
The Quran further states that:3:59 The similitude of Jesus before God is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was. 3:60 The Truth (comes) from God alone; so be not of those who doubt.
With regards to the words We, Us, Our, in the Old Testament, every Arabic, Hebrew, speaking person know that they are used has the plural of respect and not number. You will be aware of the language that is spoken by Queen, She refers to herself has We, Our, Us, it does not mean that she is referring to herself twice. The correct expression for such style of speaking is "Queens English". It does not now way prove that Jesus was with God, when God decided to create the Universe. It is the plural of respect and not plural of number.
Now finally I challenge you to show me from Bible (any version) where Jesus said I am God or Worship me. And if you met my challenge successfully I will be willing to be baptized in any church you want me to.
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"5.14] And with those who say, We are Christians, We made a covenant, but they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of, therefore We excited among them enmity and hatred to the day of resurrection; and Allah will inform them of what they did. [5.15] O followers of the Book! Indeed Our Apostle has come to you making clear to you much of what you concealed of the Book and passing over much; indeed, there has come to you light and a clear Book from Allah; [5.16] With it Allah guides him who will follow His pleasure into the ways of safety and brings them out of utter darkness into light by His will and guides them to the right path. [5.17] Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely, Allah-- He is the Messiah, son of Marium. Say: Who then could control anything as against Allah when He wished to destroy the Messiah son of Marium and his mother and all those on the earth? And Allah's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and what is between them; He creates what He pleases; and Allah has power over all things, [5.18] And the Jews and the Christians say: We are the sons of Allah and His beloved ones. Say: Why does He then chastise you for your faults? Nay, you are mortals from among those whom He has created, He forgives whom He pleases and chastises whom He pleases; and Allah's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and what is between them, and to Him is the eventual coming. [5.19] O followers of the Book! Indeed Our Apostle has come to you explaining to you after a cessation of the (mission of the) apostles, lest you say. There came not to us a giver of good news or a Warner, so indeed there has come to you a giver of good news and a Warner. And Allah has power over all things."
Say: He is Allah, the One. Allah is He on Whom all depend.
He begets not, nor is He begotten. And none is like Him.
Was-salam
M.S.Ali