Loki wrote:
first religiously speaking this is all in contradiction with christian theology and is nowhere supported by christians and is condemned to this very day, when will the muslims condemn the slayings and conquering of muhammed and it's caliphs?
Yes, war in iraq is not supported by evangelic leaders at all. And those convicted of murder in Rwanda are not Christian priests and nuns. They all really seem to be repentful for what had taken place in history.
secondly politically speaking:
1) funny that you don't mention the crusades but wich peacefull religion provoced that war you think?
2) how did the muslims get into spain? i doubt it were tourists
3) wich genocide in instanbul do you mean? the one when the muslims came to conquer byzantine? the systematical genocide the turkish government is doing with the kurds? or the armenian genocide? each one of them is done by muslims...
4) the colonisation was not always as bad for the countries as people tend to believe... many countries prosperred due to it's past foreign occupier, as can you not generalize on the bad experiences alone
5) Rwanda was a ethnic war, not a religious one, try to get it.
6) Iraq isn't a religious war either, it's secular politics... if you kick the giant then you do not have to be suprised that the giant kicks back. Has nothing to do with religion. Muslims only make it religious, in so much that i'm starting to believe that if the US was a muslim world power it would of never complained for ousting Saddam from office... i mean how many times have you protested for the Syrian occupation of Libanon? if it were a christian country, that did it, you'd be screaming murder.
Genocide in Istanbul and Jerusalem took place during crudades. Western Romans murdered Eastern Romans in Istanbul and you know the extent of violance in Jerusalem.
There was a continuous hostility between Muslims in North Africa and their neigbours accross the strait. Nothing surprising. You should be happy. Muslims brought some civilization to medieval europe.
And I salute you for supporting the colonization. Hail Captain Cook, Hail Commander Cortes!
That wasn't aburaees question was it, he asked if they are in hell now?
are you dodging?
Be polite. God will judge between them. We are not to take a part in this political struggle and prefer one to other. (Yet, shia sect did. They should've not.)
yeah the jizah tax, the one that makes you secondary citizens in your own country, when they conquered it, plus you know what they did too those that refused to pay it?
"The general Khalid went with a force of 10,000 into Iraq. Khalid gave the people of Hira a choice of three options that became the standard policy of the Muslim conquerors - either accept Islam, agree to pay the jizya tribute, or fight."
chosing between forced conversion, extortion or death... yeah islam was a real blessing for those countries
and you really really believe that muhammed and the four caliphs never forced anyone to convert?
ever heard of the Ayah of the sword?
"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful." 9:5
basicilly it's slay them, untill they convert, that wich you said wasn't done by muhammed
These are exerpts out of the caliph wars:
- Persia: Khalid sent a letter to the Persians warning them if they did not become Muslims or pay protection, he would come upon them with men who love death as much as they love life or wine.
- Persia: Caliph 'Umar appointed Nu'man to replace Sa'd at Kufa; but he was killed during the Muslims' "victory of victories" at Nihavand which was reported to have killed 100,000 Persians and finally defeated the Sassanian empire in 641. The Persian aristocracy had over-taxed the people for too long. The Arabs collected less taxes, and the Muslims certainly fought with more zeal for their religion.
- Persia: NO COMPULSION: Zarathustran temples were destroyed in Azerbaijan, and Qazvin surrendered in 644. The capitulation terms of Jurjan, Tabaristan, Jil Jilan, and Azerbaijan also provided safe conduct in exchange for the jizya tax and required them to provide hospitality to traveling Muslims. Many treaties threatened severe punishments for striking or insulting a Muslim.
- Syria: Emperor Heraclius at Antioch who was defeated and beheaded when he refused to renounce Christianity for Islam.
- Syria: Damascus was besieged the fanatical Muslims defeated the larger Byzantine army, and Derar was rescued. Thousands of fleeing Greeks were killed.
- Syria: A hermit, who attracted the crowd, warned Khalid of heaven's vengeance for his having slaughtered Christians. The Muslim general replied that he was obeying God in killing unbelievers.
Charles Manson would make a good muslim
Let me tell you something. Muslims fight when there's aggression and hostility toward themselves. When they make a treaty with goodness they are loyal to it. But Muslims also fight for one more thing. Werever there's oppression Muslims should help the oppressed, even when there's no immediate hostility toward the Muslims. Because Muslims are caliphs of Allah and they should work to eliminate injustice and restore order. The religion of the oppressed is not important.