Christian/Muslim ThreadsObservations on Christianity
Exactly what is your reasoning? it is in our nature to fight so allow it? Isn't that what you are trying to say by sugar coating it with sufi catch phrases, exactly what are you trying to say?
I have heard this lie so many times regurgitated from so many ignorant muslims it is beginning to lose it's shock value, who oppressed Mohammed and the early muslims? who was oppressing them as they were raiding caravans more than 40+ times without reply? who oppressed them when they killed a man during the sacred month of rajab as they raided his caravan? who opressed them when quraish asked for Mohammed to be brought to trial for having that man killed in the sacred month of rajab (leading to Mohammed's elope from justice aka the hijra) who opressed them as they attacked a rich quraish caravan killing several merchants enslaving and ransoming others? which the koran claimed was punishment from your allah, not fighting against injustice, not some moral right to defend onself, but to kill and enslave with the excuse is that they were unbelievers nothing more, nothing less, I dare you sardab to bring me forth hadiths that show how this early muslims were being oppresed and were not the instigators of the wars that came, we will see just how much you believe in this parroted stance, depending on how much of this lie you can substantiate. Ofcourse you can always run away with some high moral non sequitur statement of "allah knows best", or "I don't want to reply to you cause I don't know myself, but bring me hitman or his boss alhamduillah" The koran and hadiths clearly state this command to fight is to subject unbelievers to islam, not to defend themselves, this is nowhere elaborated in the tafsirs or ahadith, I dare you to show me where with koranic verses this defense mode teaching stems from. It is very interesting from the tafsir exactly what is labelled trangressing or what is called injustice: http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=5035 Did you read that? Islam equates injustice with shirk, ie if you are a non-muslim you are already committing an injustice to a muslim and are canon fodder, do you know why this was said? I believe it was said because there was no crime the pagans alledgedly offended the muslims with, there was nothing to pinpoint that the pagans deserved what was about to befall them, the manifesto of stealing their lands and raping their women without a reason must have looked unpalatable even to islam's early chroniclers and surely they knew only crooks and theives did this, so they had to pin something on the unbelievers to make them deserve this other than unsubstantiated rumors of persecution which no evidence existed for to justify what Mohammed had planned for the unbelievers, it somehow had to be warranted, and was vindicated with their 'crime' of persecution and injustice being shirk, absolutely hilarious. Notice the statement at the end "If they abandon their injustice, which is Shirk in this case, then do not start aggression against them afterwards" is there a need for this as well? if they cease their shirk wouldn't they then be muslims? does this make any sense? The tafsir of sura 2 further in the title "Jihad is made obligatory" is very clear: http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=5708 Remember now these sayings attributed to allah were supposed to be written before the foundation of the earth, before the dawn of time, echoing for all eternity, yet allah apparently respects the pagan sacred months like the pagans do (but this is suppose to be the same God as the christians and the jews!!), allah apparently believes prevention from entering a mosque is worse than killing the individual who prevented you from entering the mosque, that disbelief is worse than killing, in other words it is ok to kill an unbeliever but it is not ok to not believe, it does not get any more dictatorial than this, this my dear friend is pure islam (to prevent access to Al-Masjid Al-Haram (at Makkah), and to drive out its inhabitants, and Al-Fitnah is worse than killing.)tell me you do not see the persona of allah as pictured from the understanding of the early muslims is synonymous with the christian devil? Jesus also said if your eye offends you pluck it out, I take it with the literal mentality of islam you interpret this to mean plucking out your eye right? Turning the other cheek does not signify standing aside, being a doormat of a pacifist, and letting people be raped, innocent people killed and doing nothing when injustice arrives, that my dear friend is culpable negligence, christianity is very specific regarding culpable negligence it says "to him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not to him it is a sin". Isn't it amazing how muslims apply this literal interpretations to biblical text, but refuse to admit to literal interpretations of their own text when it says "lie in wait for the pagans... ambush them... slay them ... do not make friends with christians or jews" (the westernised muslims not the true muslims in the middle east) but the text was written before the foundation of the world devoid of any context or chronology.
Funny enough for once I agree with you, I have brought forth a lot of crap, it is your ahadiths and koran, it is good you realise it is a lot of crap, I notice you have never actually taken the time to even attempt defending the "crap" in your koran and ahadiths, but highlight christianity's crimes committed in the middle ages to have something to be on par with, isn't this revealing? you know your religion is in the gutter but to have something to say or to give the impression that you have said something you highlight the crimes of others to cover your relgion's deficiencies, isn't it telling the only glorious islamic era muslims talk about involve the treatment of prisoners (which they made prisoners) and battles they won (and instigated) is this really a religion after Christ nothing but war and carnage to claim converts and the pursuit of war and carnage while a convert for entrance into a celestial whore house where rivers of wine (haram in islam) and houris (the root word of the english whore) await them? (prostitution, adultery, fornication forbidden in both previous revelations... and oh islam too why would God forbid something on earth but allow it in heaven???) is this really from a Divine Being that has no darkness in Him? Sardab what is your understanding of islam? What have you done so far? http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic.php?p=57761 Absolutely hilarious when shown the immoral acts of Mohammed according to the hadiths what did you do? you simply said you accept it even though you don't understand it, that my dear friend is being a slave to legalism, overiding your common sense, you can see it happening here, the muslims here are arguing over when, how, what and how many times completely and totally diregarding their common sense, a rapist does not represent God no matter if he rolls on the floor frothing at the mouth before he rapes, a paedophile does not represent God no matter if he uses odd pieces of toilet tissue before he violates a child's innocence, a war monger does not represent God no matter how many times he bows to the rising sun (this is paganism), a sexual lecher does not represent God no matter how many womens' husbands he kills and "marries them" (when it is more akin to rape after killing their husbands), why Sardab do you send peace and blessings to your 'prophet' with no prophecy to his name, and yet you know he has all these qualities, what reasoning is this? |
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