Joseph wrote:fdjohan wrote:Joseph you are just miss-understood. You have right to argue my sources, but you have to convince us that you are better than them. How far you learned about Islam, Who is your teacher etc. If you talk much about Islam but learned nothing deeply about it, how can we respect you? If you learn about Islam base on your own believe, that's mean you do not have any respect to what Islam has and we do not have any respect for what you say. I think that's the law of nature.
You are the person misunderstanding, JCF discussions do not exist solely for sake of Muslims.
I know about this. But that's doesn't mean WE Muslims have to be LOST of our RIGHT to be more CRITICAL about what you are all claim.
You have your own RISK to make this forum. One of the RISK is MUSLIMS demand more explaination include your KNOWLEDGE about what you are talking about especially what's belongs to Islam and it's system.
Mostly Christians here come with their WAR-LOOK habit than a peaceful talk. OK then. YOU use your weapon, and WE use our weapon. So When talking about al_Qur'an, all the things that belongs to AL-Qur'an (azbab al nuzul, history of verses, Muslims Scholar's views etc) is OUR weapons. Do you think those are all ILLEGAL weapon? no my friend. That's all belongs to Al-Qur'an. So, in the Battle Fields you can't prohibit people in using their weapons.
There is no requirement for me to agree with your Islamic scholars notwithstanding the esteem Muslims hold them.
Agree or not agree I don't mind. I come here just to remind you that YOU can NOT insist your own ideology to what belongs to other people. You want us to respect you but have no care about how to respect us. That's just doesn't work.
Should be pretty simple to understand, your learned ones speak against the Gospel and Christianity.
Who says they speak against Christianity and Gospel? They are explaining about the verses in Al-Qur'an deeply by respecting the basic rule of interpreting Al-Qur'an. Are they talking or shouting at you Christians in this forum? or anywhere? are they abuse you just like what you all did to other religion in this forum? They help Muslims to understand the words of their ALLAH. They do NOT shout at you.
The Gospel is standard by which I judge everything, including your masters. Once again, let the readers judge soundness of argument, and you have the right of response.
Al-Qur'an and Hadith are Muslims basic foundation to JUDGE everything. So let them to use it. I always let the forum judge the discussion. That's the reason why I challenge you all to give them your sources. LET them know where you have those information. But I did so far is other part of argument. I stayed legal. Nothin ilegal.
For certain your constant beckoning to Islam's learned one is not an argument.
I dissagree. Arguments must backed up by references. Why, becaue I'm not sure all people here are ISLAMIC SCHOLARS. You can claim here and there but do you understand what you are talking about? Then backed it up by references. That's if you talk or making any claim about Islam the it's system.
90% of Muslims know little of Islam beyond its catechism
You are talking about PERCENTAGE. Be careful when you talk about this to me. You have to answer me. Is that your MERELY OPPINION, or base on a SURVEY or any REASEARCH? If you say from research, then we want the prove of it. Show it to us. If you tell the forum that "It's my merely oppinion" then I don't want to bother you.
and most of Islam's convert have made that decision not by investigation but through ignorance.
This is interesting. Please tell me more.
When person is trusting in men, then they are not trusting in God. If "we" have no respect for anything I have said, fine, then you have no worries.
The word TRUST is not finish by it self.
I'd better trust EINSTEIN to talk about PHISIC than listening your talk about phisic, since you haven't convince us that you are an expert about it.
I'd better trust STEPHEN HAWKING to talk about ASTRONOMY than
listening your talk about phisic, since you haven't convince us that you are an expert about it.
I'd better trust IBN KATSIR to talk about TAFSIR than listening you making any tafsir of Al-Qur'an, since you haven't convince us that you are an expert about it.
That's the word TRUST in this case.
You're learned ones defense for Quran was stale a long tome ago. It's making a joke of text calling itself "clear proof." Everyone here has witnessed your cheap debate methods. You submitted Q:5:116 with "worship me" emphasized, it failed because of your dishonest use of Quranic material out of context. Then you tried to change rational for submitting the verse, by claiming Christians worship Mary. I hope the reason for this false claim is your Islam induced ignorance on Bible and Christianity, and not pathetic desperation.
Can you convince me that not even a single teaching to worship the virgin Mary? if you can, then just do it.
Though I am covert to Christ, from Islam,
WOW!! what a coincidence. I am happen to be an EX CHRISTIAN convert to ISLAM.
I have never used my Muslim background as some sort of expertise in the religion.
Well, I disappointed. Christians proclaim other people religion as an UNPEACEFUL religion. But Christianity never stop you from Attacking people's believe. I dissappointed how the missionary steal people's believe. I disappointed by my own Christianity. Talk as bad as you can about Islam. But I found my peace in Islam.
Anyway, that's your right to do it.
However my father's instructions on Islam probably went beyond what most Muslims are taught. Finally, there is no law of nature which says a person must live in ignorance.