Christian/Muslim Threads103...BISMILLAHIRRAHMAANIRRAHIIM
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Peace!!
I'm so busy lately.
Apple Pie wrote:fdjohan wrote: Surah 103 revealed in Mecca.
There were no evidences Prophet(saw) read the NT in time he was in Mecca.
There is no evidence that your so-called “prophet” wrote this sura.
None.
That's correct Apple Pie, it is confirmed by AL-Qur'an
029.048
YUSUFALI:
And thou wast not (able) to recite a Book before this (Book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe it with thy right hand: In that case, indeed, would the talkers of vanities have doubted.
PICKTHAL:
And thou (O Muhammad) wast not a reader of any scripture before it, nor didst thou write it with thy right hand, for then might those have doubted, who follow falsehood.
SHAKIR:
And you did not recite before it any book, nor did you transcribe one with your right hand, for then could those who say untrue things have doubted.
That was confirmed by Al-Qur'an.
But his sahaba wrote the words for him.
One of the famous secretary of him is Zaid Ibn Thabit.
It was recorded in Hadith of Bukhari:
Volume 6, Book 61, Number 512:
Narrated Al-Bara:
There was revealed: 'Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and those who strive and fight in the Cause of Allah.' (4.95)
The Prophet said, "Call Zaid for me and let him bring the board, the inkpot and the scapula bone (or the scapula bone and the ink pot)."' Then he said, "Write: 'Not equal are those Believers who sit..", and at that time 'Amr bin Um Maktum, the blind man was sitting behind the Prophet . He said, "O Allah's Apostle! What is your order For me (as regards the above Verse) as I am a blind man?" So, instead of the above Verse, the following Verse was revealed:
'Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame etc.) and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah.' (4.95)
Prophet(saw) did not write the messages by him self but order his sahaba to write them under his own supervision.
Regarding surah 103, it war recorded by Ibn Katsir:
They have mentioned that `Amr bin Al-`As went to visit Musaylimah Al-Kadhdhab after the Messenger of Allah was commissioned (as a Prophet) and before `Amr had accepted Islam. Upon his arrival, Musaylimah said to him, "What has been revealed to your friend (Muhammad ) during this time'' `Amr said, "A short and concise Surah has been revealed to him.'' Musaylimah then said, "What is it'' `Amr replied;
[وَالْعَصْرِ - إِنَّ الإِنسَـنَ لَفِى خُسْرٍ - إِلاَّ الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ وَعَمِلُواْ الصَّـلِحَـتِ وَتَوَاصَوْاْ بِالْحَقِّ وَتَوَاصَوْاْ بِالصَّبْرِ ]
(By Al-`Asr. Verily, man is in loss. Except those who believe and do righteous deeds, and recommend one another to the truth, and recommend one another to patience.)
So a sahaba of the Prophet(saw) gave his witness that this surah formed at the time Prophet(saw) still alive.
Again, you've been refuted.
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The main message of Surah 103 is "DON"T MESS WITH TIME"
for this verse, Ibn Katsir commented:
Quote:
Al-`Asr is the time in which the movements of the Children of Adam occur, whether good or evil. Malik narrated from Zayd bin Aslam that he said, "It is the evening.'' However, the first view is the popular opinion. Thus, Allah swears by this, that man is in Khusr, which means in loss and destruction.
Too bad he fails to show his work…
No references shown whatsoever….just like you… :roll:
No, you fail to translate a verse. Why, because there are no PROVES that your scholar E.W. Lane understand Al-Qur'an.
My scholar Ibn Katsir is an expert in Al-Qur'an. that's the difference.
AUTHOR BIO: EDWARD WILLIAM LANE (1801–1875) was a distinguished English scholar of the Arab world who made voyages up the Nile in 1826 and 1827. Fascinated by Egyptian lives and customs, he traveled to Egypt frequently and lived in Cairo from 1833 to 1835, where he studied and adopted Egyptian dress. The author of several other works, Lane is best known for his translation of Arabian Nights (1832-41).
He is good in Arabic lexicon, but that's nothing to do with Al-Qur'an. We doubt about his knowledge about Al-Qur'an.
The first verse of surah 103 is where you can find ALLAH swears by his creation ---TIME.
Three of the translators translated as:
103.001
YUSUFALI: By (the Token of) Time (through the ages),
PICKTHAL: By the declining day,
SHAKIR: I swear by the time,
Where is the Arabic….?
ْعَصْرِ
WaalAAasri
103.1 And/by the time during which peoples pass away and become extinct.
You show it before right?
An Islamic Scholar Abu AbdisSalam commented:
Quote:
When Allaah says 'By the ‘Asr', He is making an oath. So Allaah is swearing byal-'Asr. Allaah can swear by anything He wants, as He can use anything to be His witness. However, we as Muslims, are not allowed to swear by anything or anyone except by Allaah, His Names or His Attributes.
Here we go again…
Where is your “allah” mentioned anywhere in this entire sura?
He is not.
Let me teach you what we call "QUR'AN's OATHS"
These are "Qur'an's oaths)
Example:
[91] By the Soul, and the proportion and order given to it;
[92] By the Night as it conceals (the light);
[92] By the Day as it appears in glory;
[92] By (the mystery of) the creation of male and female;-
[93] By the Glorious Morning Light,
[93] And by the Night when it is still,-
[95] By the Fig and the Olive,
[100] By the (Steeds) that run, with panting (breath),
Many of the early Qur'anic surahs contain oaths (ALLAH swear by His own Creations), typical of which are the oaths sworn by the sun and the moon, day and night, and light and darkness.
The first verse of surah 103, is one of ALLAH's oath. He swears by his own creation--TIME.
Summary of 103.1:
The first surah is one of the Quranic oaths. Here ALLAH SWEARS by TIME.
Where is your god mentioned?
Explained above.
From his exegesis, Apple formed this verse:
103.1 And/by the time during which peoples pass away and become extinct.
Relate them with these passages.
REV 14
Quote:
14 I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one "like a son of man" with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand.
15 Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, "Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe."
16 So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.
17 Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle.
18 Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, "Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth's vine, because its grapes are ripe."
19 The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God's wrath.
20 They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses' bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.
And this one
Quote:
REV 19
15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
With our own rational brain, Those are all nothing to do with his own translation or the sense of "TIME" which is the CORE MESSAGE of surah 103.
About the only thing that you got right, is that it is called an exegesis…
I don't think exegesis comes more important than trying to look at the real message of the verse it self.
You can't have the thrue meaning of a verse careless verses before and after it and also again contact to the situation and condition.
Quote:
Summary of 103.1:
• In Revelation, John describes the vision of Jesus coming on a cloud to reap the harvest of believers, on Earth, that have faith in Him
• Revelation tells us that this will occur at a certain definite time, via the noun “hora”
• Jesus gathers His faithful followers unto Himself
• Revelation also informs us that an angel will come to “gather the clusters of the vine of the earth”
• This is due to the “staphule”, or grapes, being ripe
• The grapes are then cast into God’s “lenos”, or winepress
• These are the ones not having faith in Jesus
There is no sense of TIME there.
What “time” are you referring to…?
From what ALLAH swears, and your own traslation
103.1 And/by the time ..................
Quote:
• 103.1 begins with “waal” which can be taken as a swearing by a thing
ok
Quote:
• The juxtaposed “al” informs us that “it is also used to indicate something which has already been mentioned or a concept of which is in the mind of the writer or reader”
So,
Quote:
• Further, “al” has the signification of “anything which has a quality requiring it to be regarded as sacred, or inviolable; which has some right pertaining to it”
• Hence the material in this sura is not only very important, and sacred, but it relates to something that is already known
• 103.1 elaborates on what is already known and sacred, by affixing the noun “asri”, which tells us of a certain time “during which peoples pass away and become extinct”
Thanks for acknowledging the authority of our references and exegesis…
I don't find any problem with that.
Then?
Quote:
• The root “asara” is defined as “he pressed grapes”
Why do we have to talk about the root “he pressed grapes” if we are talking about TIME?
Do you even understand what a root is…?
Apparently you don’t.
I understand. What is the value of talking about it when it is nothing related to the message of the verse? Not to mention the word "“he pressed grapes” nothing to do with the 2nd verse you translated.
103.2 Certainly the human is in punishment for sin.
Quote:
• Further, the root “asara” has the definition of “he took, or collected, the produce of the earth”
Where is is the sense of TIME if we talk about the root of it?
The root is the origin of the word.
Quote:
• Surveying all five Koranic usages of the root derivatives, shows a couple more instances where grapes are being placed into a winepress
But we are talking about TIME.
Again…what time?
What is the origin?
Do you even know….or care….?
That question will goes to you.
This translation comes from you
103.1 And/by the time during which peoples pass away and become extinct.
Or maybe you don't understand about your own translation?
Quote:
• Thus, it is clear that 103.1 is referencing the time when the unbelievers will be cast into the winepress of God Almighty, just as stated in the Book of Revelation
They are not the same.
Wrong.
Sura 103 is entirely copied from Revelation chapter 14.
Another wishful thinking.
8 verses of Revelation squeezed in to one small word. How amazing.
Quote:
• Further, Revelation tells us that it is Jesus Himself who treads God’s winepress – further exemplifying Jesus as God via deity interchangeability
Surah 1 wants us to concern about time.
Which part of those things related?
Google the definition of the Arabic word that is bothering you…
Go on…
Google away…..
No, what bothering you is that you don't know about Al-Qur'an.
You attack something that you don't understand.
Salaam
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