Christian/Muslim ThreadsHistory of Islamic TerrorWell, no, let me just get this over
Fdjohan wrote:
Kai replies:
So the Muslims reject Muhammad and there is a war of words, does that gave the reason to butcher the Jewish community?
THIS WAS THE ONLY REASON, WHY MUHAMMAD HAD TO EXTERMINATE THEM; THEY WERE ABLE TO EXPOSE HIM, THEY KNEW HOW THE QUR'AN HAD BEEN COMPOSED AND WHO HELPED MUHAMMAD DOING IT; THERE PRESENCE HINDERED ISLAM TO MOVE ON.
Fdjohan continues:
Most wicked Banu Qainuqa’ 700 warriors, trouble making hurting those frequenting their bazaars, intimidating women, Muhammad gathered them in assemblage, and admonished them to be rational, but they did not pay heed, they said, don’t be deluded because you won the Qurais, if you would engage us, you would realize that we are the experts.
The history recorded how later JEWS betrayed the treaty and ATTACKED Muslims.
http://www.muslimaccess.com/sunnah/seerah/26.htm
THE QAINUQA' JEWS BREACH THE COVENANT:
Quote:
Seeing that Allâh sided with the believers and granted them a manifest victory and perceiving the Muslims’ awesome presence in Madinah, the Jews could no longer contain themselves or conceal indignation. They started a series of provocative and harmful deeds publicly. The most wicked amongst them were the tribe of Banu Qainuqa‘, who lived in quarters within Madinah named after them. As for jobs, they took up goldsmithery, blacksmithing and crafts of making household instruments, that is why war weaponry was available in large quantities in their houses. They counted 700 warriors, and were the most daring amongst the Jewish community in Arabia, and now the first to breach the covenant of cooperation and non-aggression which they had already countersigned with the Prophet (Peace be upon him). Their behaviour grew too impolite and unbearable. They started a process of trouble-making, jeering at the Muslims, hurting those who frequented their bazaars, and even intimidating their women. Such things began to aggravate the general situation, so the Prophet(Peace be upon him) gathered them in assemblage, admonished and called them to be rational, sensible and guided and cautioned against further transgression. Nevertheless they remained obdurate and paid no heed to his warning, and said: “Don’t be deluded on account of defeating some Quraishites inexperienced in the art of war. If you were to engage us in fight, you will realize that we are genuine war experts.”
It's JEWS started everything. And what did the Prophet do? He (Peace be upon him) gathered them in assemblage, admonished and called them to be rational. There are no sign to kill on the spot. Even the Prophet called Muslims to be more patient .
Quote:
The answer of Banu Qainuqa‘ amounted, as seen, to war declaration. The Prophet (Peace be upon him) suppressed his anger and advised the Muslims to be patient and forbearing and wait for what time might reveal.
The Jews, went too far in their transgression, presumptuous behaviour and licentious practices. One day a Jewish goldsmith provoked a Muslim woman whose genitals become uncovered when he had tied the edge of the garment to her back. A Muslim man happened to be there and killed the man; the Jews retaliated by killing that Muslim. The man’s family called the Muslims for help and war started.
JEWS who started the war and created so much problem to the Muslims.
This part of history to explaining the BACKGROUND of those verses KAI posted.
This is other prove that Muslims do not attack such INNOCENT un-believers. Muslims will fight people who attack them, not if they want peace with them.
Kai replies:
THIS IS JUST ON MORE EXAMPLE OF TYPICAL BLAIMING OTHERS AND FOCUSING ON BIASED VIEWS AND INFORMATION.
I am not denying that the Jews might have misbehaved, but I doubt that their behaviour was the solemn reason for war.
First and most because Muslims themselves misbehaving:
Shortly before Muhammad’s surprise victory at Badr, Abu Bakr, one of his chief companions, barged into a Jewish school, led by two rabbis. Abu Bakr called on one of the rabbis "to fear God and become a Muslim because he knew that Muhammad was the apostle of God who had brought the truth from Him and that they would find it written in the Torah and the Gospel." One of the rabbis sassed him, saying that Allah must be poor, if Muhammad has to borrow money from the Jews. Enraged, Abu Bakr struck him hard on the face, telling him: "Were it not for the treaty between us I would cut off your head, you enemy of Allah!" The story ends with the rabbi denying to Muhammad that he sassed Abu Bakr (note how the Jew is not only a blasphemer but also a liar), but the prophet got a revelation that the rabbi had mocked Allah. Thus, Abu Bakr was justified in using physical violence in response to disrespectful words. He is a Muslim hero. Incidentally, it is many quickly narrated stories like this one that are found everywhere in early Islamic sources that shock fair-minded readers. Islam is not the religion of peace (Summarized by James M. Arlandson).
Sources: Muslim, vol. 3, nos. 4363; Ibn Ishaq, Life of Muhammad, trans. A. Guillaume, Oxford UP, 1955, p. 263 / Arabic p. 388 and p. 363 / 545; Tabari, The Foundation of the Community, trans. M. V. McDonald, vol. 7 (SUNYP, 1987), pp. 85-87 / 1359-62.
Secondly, because Jews were offended by Muhammad misuse and corruption of their religion
Thirdly, because Muhammad might have had a significant political and religious motive to kill them
Since we only rely on Muslim sources here, who are the winners, I cast doubt upon the credibility of the information
There were many reasons for conflict, particularly the raiding and robbing of the Meccan traders; which Muhammad and his followers resorted to.
Modern Saudi biographer Safi-ur-Rahman al-Mubarakpuri expresses the right idea:
. . . "t was wise for the Muslims to bring the commercial routes leading to Makkah [Mecca] under their control" (p. 201). Then he lists eight raids between 623 and the Battle of Badr in AD 624.
Safi-ur-Rahman Mubarakpuri, The Sealed Nectar: Biography of the Noble Prophet, Darrusalam, 1996, p. 201. This biography was awarded first prize by the Muslim World League, but it is an encomium more than an objective biography.
From Muhammad’s point of view, he wanted the Kabah shrine in Mecca, and if this goal involved hindering Meccan trade, then so be it. Two early Medinan suras or chapters (2 and 8) reveal his outlook. Sura 2:189-196 and 216-218 command Muslims to fight the Quraysh because this tribe wanted to control their own shrine, even if this entailed prohibiting the Muslims, who were hampering the large tribe’s trade, from visiting it. Next, Sura 2:125-129 asserts without a shred of evidence that Abraham built and purified the shrine, and now Muhammad the monotheist is the best representative of this patriarch. He claimed this while he lived in Mecca, too (Sura 14:35-41). So in effect the shrine belonged to him by revelation, before it actually did by conquest (in early AD 630). Finally, in Sura 8:30-40, the prophet recounts his persecution back in Mecca and why the Quraysh are not the rightful guardians of the shrine. They barred people from it—never mind that about eight years later the prophet will bar pagans from the shrine. All Arab polytheists will be forced to convert or die.
According to Ibn Ishaq, Muhammad had an enormous army in Medina and effectively fought the pagan Arabs by the use of new military tactics, such as the use of trenches. The Jews did not join in the war, and sat home. Muhammad then devised a plan to make the Jews in Medina and the Pagan Arabs communicate together, to complete his deceptive tricks he used Nuaym of the Ghatafan tribe. This was done with intention and full knowledge that the Pagan Arabs would loose the war, the Jews would be helpless and there would be a good reason to consider the Jews as a treat.
Sources: Ibn Ishaq, p. 458-59; Tabari vol. 8, p. 23-24
This is why Muhammad called war deceit:
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 268:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle called,: "War is deceit".
This War then is inaugurated by Gabriel who tells Muhammad to attack the Jews
(1) Traditions state that as the prophet was taking a bath, the (non-Biblical) angel Gabriel appeared to him.
Gabriel tells him the battle is not finished. Muhammad is ordered to fight the Qurayza Jews.
When Allah’s Apostle returned on the day (of the battle) of Al-Khandaq (i.e. Trench), he put down his arms and took a bath. Then Gabriel, whose head was covered with dust, came to him saying, "You have put down your arms! By Allah, I have not put down my arms yet." Allah’s Apostle said, "Where (to go now)?" Gabriel said, "This way," pointing towards the tribe of Bani [tribe] Quraiza. So Allah’s Apostle went out towards them. (Bukhari; see a parallel hadith here.)
This next hadith shows a regiment of Gabriel (Muslim warriors) marching towards the fortresses of the Jews.
Narrated Anas: As if I am just now looking at the dust rising in the street of Banu Ghanm (in Medina) because of the marching of Gabriel's regiment when Allah's Apostle set out to Banu Quraiza (to attack them). (Bukhari; see this parallel hadith: Muslim no. 4370 and see no. 4371)
Under the 25 days siege Muhammad has an expert in poetry, name Hassan to abuse the Jews inside the fortress
Volume 5, Book 59, Number 449:
Narrated Al-Bara:
The Prophet said to Hassan, "Abuse them (with your poems), and Gabriel is with you (i.e, supports you)." (Through another group of sub narrators) Al-Bara bin Azib said, "On the day of Quraiza's (besiege), Allah's Apostle said to Hassan bin Thabit, 'Abuse them (with your poems), and Gabriel is with you (i.e. supports you).' "
aiza’s (besiege), Allah's Apostle said to Hassan bin Thabit, ‘Abuse them (with your poems), and Gabriel is with you (i.e. supports you).’" (Bukhari)
According to Ibn Ishaq, the poetry referred to Jews as brother of monkeys since the Qur’an refers to the occasion (or fairytale) when Allah turned Jews in to apes (Ibn Ishaq, pp. 461-62)
See Sura 2: 65
To see how this utterly racistic, anti-semetic spirit is still thriving within Islam see this website:
http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page= ... ID=SP68304
Interestingly, these Jews could have been sent into exile, which seems to have become the Muslim trend, in doing to Jews and Christian:
Volume 3, Book 39, Number 531:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
Umar expelled the Jews and the Christians from Hijaz. When Allah's Apostle had conquered Khaibar, he wanted to expel the Jews from it as its land became the property of Allah, His Apostle, and the Muslims. Allah's Apostle intended to expel the Jews but they requested him to let them stay there on the condition that they would do the labor and get half of the fruits. Allah's Apostle told them, "We will let you stay on thus condition, as long as we wish." So, they (i.e. Jews) kept on living there until 'Umar forced them to go towards Taima' and Ariha'.
Man what a peaceful religion; they could choose to leave (exile was dreadful and you lost home, property, and go where), or they could stay do the labour and only receive half of their usual harvest.
After the siege, Muhammad sends for Sad bin Muadh (the leader of a Medinan tribe) to decide the judgement over the Jews
This Hadith describes Sad bin Muadh judgement and Muhammad’s consent:
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 280:
Narrated Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri:
When the tribe of Bani Quraiza was ready to accept Sad's judgment, Allah's Apostle sent for Sad who was near to him. Sad came, riding a donkey and when he came near, Allah's Apostle said (to the Ansar), "Stand up for your leader." Then Sad came and sat beside Allah's Apostle who said to him. "These people are ready to accept your judgment." Sad said, "I give the judgment that their warriors should be killed and their children and women should be taken as prisoners." The Prophet then remarked, "O Sad! You have judged amongst them with (or similar to) the judgment of the King Allah."
THIS SIMPLY REVEALS THAT ISLAM IS A MAN-MADE RELIGION
See also
Volume 5, Book 58, Number 148:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
Some people (i.e. the Jews of Bani bin Quraiza) agreed to accept the verdict of Sad bin Muadh so the Prophet sent for him (i.e. Sad bin Muadh). He came riding a donkey, and when he approached the Mosque, the Prophet said, "Get up for the best amongst you." or said, "Get up for your chief." Then the Prophet said, "O Sad! These people have agreed to accept your verdict." Sad said, "I judge that their warriors should be killed and their children and women should be taken as captives." The Prophet said, "You have given a judgment similar to Allah's Judgment (or the King's judgment)."
When I think about the treatment of female captives in Islam I find this utterly repulsive:
Females slaves were used for sex
Sura 70:22-30; 23:5-6; 4:24 give full permission for the Muslims to rape their female slaves (the girls taken in war). In Sura 33:50 a special permission is given for Muhammed.
"...who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave girls, for these are lawful to them..." (Sura 23: 5-6)
"And all married women are forbidden unto you save those captives whom your right hand possess. It is a decree of Allah for you (Sura 4: 24).
According to Tabari vol.39, p.194 the ruler of Alexandria gave a young Christian girl as a gift to Muhammad, her name was Mariyam. Muhammad never married her but used to sleep with her, and she even gave birth to a son who died after 18 months..
According to Sahih Bukhari vol.5#637 Ali had sex with a slave girl whom he saw and found beautiful, and Muhammad seemed to have no objections.
Narrated Buraida: The prophet sent Ali to Khalid to bring the Khumus (part of the war booty) and I hated Ali, and Ali had taken a bath (after a sexual act with a slave girl from the Khumus). I said to Khalid, "Don't you see this (i.e. Ali)? When we reached the prophet I mentioned that to him. He said, "O Buraida! Do you hate Ali?" I said, "Yes." He said, "Do you hate him for he deserves more than that from the Khumus." (Sahih Bukhari, vol.5, #637)
Female captives were used for sex
According to Sahih Bukhari vol.9#506; Sahih Muslim vol.2#3371 Muhammad’s followers used to come to Muhammad after battles, to seek permission and advise to engage in sexual activity with the girls taken in battle. They doubted for several reasons, however, permission was granted.
At one point Muhammad gave them permission and told them that it is up to Allah who gets created anyway, thus permission was given.
a. The permission from the Koran
"Prophet, We have made lawful to you the wives whom you have granted dowries and the slave girls whom God has given you as booty;..." (Sura 33: 50)
b. Doubt due to fear of less money for selling pregnant slaves
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri that while he was sitting with Allah's messenger we said, "Oh Allah's messenger, we got female captives as our booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interruptus?" The prophet said, "Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do it. No soul that which Allah has destined to exist, but will surely come into existence." (Sahih Bukhari, vol.3, # 432) (further reference Bukhari Vol. 3, #718)
c. Fear due to pregnancy
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri that during the battle with Bani Al-Mustaliq they (Muslims) captured some females and intended to have sexual relations with them without impregnating them. So they asked the prophet about coitus interruptus. The prophet said, "It is better that you should not do it, for Allah has written whom He is going to create till the Day of Resurrection". (Sahih Bukhari, vol.9, #506) (further reference Bukhari 5: 459)
d. Lust or ransom?
Abu Sirma said to Abu Said al Khudri: "O Abu Said, did you hear Allah's messenger mentioning about al-azl (coitus interrupts)?" He said, "Yes", and added: "We went out with Allah's messenger on the expedition to the Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing azl" (withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid conception). But we said: "We are doing an act whereas Allah's messenger is amongst us; why not ask him?" So we asked Allah's messenger and he said: "It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born". (Sahih Muslim vol.2, # 3371)
e. Doubt since their men are polytheists
Abu Said al-Khudri reported that at the Battle of Hunain Allah's messenger sent an army to Autas and encountered the enemy and fought with them. Having overcome them and taken them captives, the Companions of Allah's messenger seemed to refrain from having intercourse with captive women because of their husbands being polytheists. Then Allah, Most High, sent down regarding that: "And women already married, except those whom your right hands possess (Quran - 4:24), (i.e. they were lawful for them when their Idda (menstrual) period came to and end). (Sahih Muslim, vol.2, #3432)
f. Doubt since their husbands watch them being raped
Abu Said al-Khudri said: "The apostle of Allah sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the apostle of Allah were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Quranic verse, "And all married women (are forbidden) unto your save those (captives) whom your right hand possesses". That is to say, they are lawful for them when they complete their waiting period."" [The Quran verse is 4:24]. (Sunan of Abu Dawud, vol.2, #2150)
Little girls could be married by the age of six or seven
Which then includes the permission to engage in sex with six and seven year old female girls and captives:
Bukhari vol. 7, #65: "Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: "I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).""
Bukhari vol. 7, #88: "Narrated Urwa: "The prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).""
From Abu Dawud, Vol. 2, #2116: "Aisha said, "The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old." (The narrator Sulaiman said: "Or six years."). "He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old."
According to Ibn Ishaq (p.464) the number of men and pubescent boys killed, might have been as high as 800-900; that was a massive genocide considering and small community as Arabia.
This is how it was decided who was to be genocided or not:
Sunan Abu Dawud Book 38, Number 4390:
Narrated Atiyyah al-Qurazi:
I was among the captives of Banu Qurayzah. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair.
One women was also killed:
Sunan Abdu Dawud Book 14, Number 2665:
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:
No woman of Banu Qurayzah was killed except one. She was with me, talking and laughing on her back and belly (extremely), while the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) was killing her people with the swords. Suddenly a man called her name: Where is so-and-so? She said: I I asked: What is the matter with you? She said: I did a new act. She said: The man took her and beheaded her. She said: I will not forget that she was laughing extremely although she knew that she would be killed.
Muhammad even took a women to himself; this is what Ibn Ishaq as to say:
The apostle had chosen one of their women for himself, Rayhana bint Amr . . . one of the women of . . . Qurayza, and she remained with him until she died, in his power. The apostle had proposed to marry and put a veil on her, but she said: "Nay, leave me in your power, for that will be easier for me and for you." So he left her. She had shown repugnance towards Islam when she was captured and clung to Judaism. (Ibn Ishaq, p. 466)
That Muhammad was no longer the man he was when he first had entered Medina might be seen through the sharing of the spoils, where the riders (the wealthier Muslims) receive a greater share than those on foot, the poorer; this is what Ib Ishaq has to say:
Then the apostle divided the property, wives, and children . . . among the Muslims, and he made known on that day the shares of horse and men, and took out the fifth. A horseman got three shares, two for the horse and one for the rider. A man without a horse got one share (p. 466).
Furthermore this was not a war but a butchery, how could 900 men and boys fight an army of thousands of Jihad warriors?
Well fdjohan I will now wait for your reply, before I post an answer to your so called Jewish conspiracy to kill the Armenians (you guys really hate Jews, right?)
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