Christian/Muslim ThreadsJesusUnity wrote: Sorry for being so late to reply, I have family on the visit at the moment, so I shall reply to you shortly. Unity wrote: Kai replies: Good point, but the incident of Pharoe’s drowning and Jesus’ escape to heaven are not comparative. Pharaoh was tricked into a trap, to be devastated, while Jesus escaped to heaven. Hence in Pharaoh’s case the trick was a necessity while in Jesus case it was not. Yet again in what sense do you consider Pharaoh’s drowning to reveal a deceptive God? Pharaoh was not deceived; he had a choice whether to pas the sea or not; those who observed Jesus’ death were simply deceived by observing a copy of Jesus being killed; hence in what sense are these two comparative? Could you please elaborate on this? Unity wrote: Kai replies: Well if you followed your book the Qur’an and its requirement for you to believe in the previous revelations to remain a Muslim, you would notice that a sacrifice is essential in order to receive mercy from God. And the Jews sacrificed; in fact according to the Qur’an even Abraham sacrificed! Could you please elaborate on this; if sacrifices are of no value, why did Abraham sacrifice? This will be the beginning to solve this particular issue. Unity wrote:
Kai replies: How do you whether his followers knew or not? Furthermore did I ever state that his followers did not know? And if they knew why did they not solve that problem with their contemporaries? How come a lie which was perceived by the Jews became the winning opinion, when his followers all the time knew the reality? Could you please explain why the earliest Christians, even the apostles choose to follow the deception rather than reality? Unity wrote: Kai replies: What we are told by the Qur’an is that it appeared to them, that Jesus died. If it was merely someone else in his own shape, no doubt the trick of Allah would not work out, as Jesus had been teaching in the temple, and most of the religious leaders, who were present at the cross would be able to point out that the particular person was not Christ but someone else. Let me also point out that the substation idea, was famous centuries before Muhammad, but not among the Christians, but the Gnostics; who believed that Jesus was too much God to be crucified; this is the theory we find in the Qur’an, and the funny thing is, the idea was brought up to defend his divine nature; quite opposite the Qur’an. Unity wrote:
Kai replies: Jesus secret court before Pilate was consulted required that the religious leaders did not show up for his arrest. It is very much possible that the particular soldiers would not recognise Jesus; it is also quite possible that due to the night and a range of other implications, someone had to specifically point Jesus out. Unity wrote: Kai replies: I don’t see what that has to do with the matter. Yet in accordance to Simone on Jesus, read the Gospels again. Simone was only forced to carry the cross as Jesus’ physical condition broke down on the way to Calvary; hence they both carried it. Unity wrote:
Kai replies: But why did they simply crucify someone else; people knew how Jesus looked like; a few days earlier he had marched through the city gate, he had created a havoc in the temple, he was famous over the entire land of Judea and Galilee. Simply to crucify Simon or Judas would not work; please elaborate on this. Unity wrote:
Kai replies: But what blasphemy would take place within his own era? This would be impossible since he was still alive and would rebuke and refute the claims about him. Furthermore, in what sense would taking Jesus’ escape to heaven purify him? I don’t see the significance here! Why not simply let Jesus remain and deal with the kuffars? Unity wrote: Kai replies: But that is what I have already stated, the purification will start after he was taken up, hence it is a future process. But my point was, it was exactly after his departure, that the falsehood must have occurred continuously, hence the Qur’an contradicts all logic here. Unity wrote: Kai replies: But how do you prove this historically bro? Where are the sources? But in one sense you are right, there are clear indications to his divinity in the Gospels and among the early Christians; furthermore, his title ‘Son of God’ was used by his disciples, himself and the Father. So I fail to perceive in this context whether we should assume this to be a problem or not. Unity wrote: Kai replies: Yeah, but again has this got anything to do with the matter. I don’t see the logic in referring to Jesus birth as a gift, I would call it a necessity. God revealed himself to Moses in a bush, but in what sense was this a sign or gift, as only Moses saw this phenomena? And the claim that Muhammad is the last prophet is only a claim! Furthermore, according to Islam, Jesus coming is still imminent, hence in all correctness Jesus ought to be perceived as the last prophet! Unity wrote: Kai replies: Nope But good attempt Be blessed bro, and thanks for your willingness to interact with us. |
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