"Webmaster"
"The orginal topic was this and you haven't answered it?
Quote:
How about this... would you be willing to say for the record that killing homosexuals is wrong? Or are you of a mind that Lev 20:13 applies and that therefore such a killing is justified? How about it?"
With respect I have answered it fully:
The Law (which does command the death penalty for certain sins) was given to the theocratic nation of Israel and was only applicable to the members of that nation (including those Gentiles who chose to live amongst them - Ruth for example) so long as it existed as a theocracy. It did not apply to the other Gentile nations (though there were rules for the rest of mankind, which included the death penalty for murder, as elucidated in the Noahic code (Gen.9)).
Since the advent of the New Covenant, which began at Pentecost, (Jer.31:31-37; Heb.10:16-17) the theocracy has been suspended until the second advent. The New Covenant is now universal and non-geographical, inclusive of the "whosoever" from throughout the Gentile nations (which is why established "State" Churches are also heretical). This means that the application of the Law as it was applied during the Old Covenant theocracy has also been suspended until the second advent when it may be reinstated (probably in a modified form) by the Messiah?
Therefore, it is wrong for Christians to seek to enact the punishments of the Old Covenant Law upon unbelievers today. We do not live in the Old Covenant theocracy. Indeed, we are not even to concern ourselves with trying to regulate how those outside the Church live since they come under the jurisdiction of the God established (not "allowed") non-religious "State" authorities (Rom.13; 1Pet.2:13-17) and not the Church as the Body of Christ (1Cor.5. esp. vv12-13).
"Propaganda is what they use, sorry I can tell no difference in the 2. You use the same wording or the same subject matters. We have listened to them for the past 7 months and you are coming in after the facts. They use the refrence of nazi's like it has anything to do with homosexuality, name calling of bigots when people takes a stand, making people think we hate etc. You sound like you have been brain washed by their wordings, I don't really know if you accept it or not but you follow their logic to make a point on the topic of homosexuality. After 7 months I am sick of hearing it from people!"
I hear what you're saying but there is an element of truth in what they're saying too.
There is a big difference between condemning the sin of homosexuality and condemning homosexuals as people simply for being homosexuals (especially if they're celibate). The one is Biblically justifiable the other is just bigotry.
The Bible does not condemn people for being homosexual since, unlike today, in Biblical times, people were not labelled according to their sexual orientation. In the ancient world it was the act of sex that was more important rather than who was doing it. Many nations of the ancient world worshipped fertility gods who required the people to engage in sexual acts of any and every combination. People (both men and women) were employed as temple prostitutes so that the people could engage in all forms of sexual activity as acts of worship to the fertility gods. The people would often engage in both homosexual and hetrosexual acts and very few outside of the Church were exclusively one way or the other. It never occured to people outside of the Church to consider themselves as either homosexual or heterosexual as we do today. It was against this background that Paul, moved by the Holy Spirit, spoke out against all forms of promiscuous sexual activity (unlike us today, Paul did not focus in on homosexuality and certainly not on homosexuals since in Paul's day there were no such thing as "homosexuals" only those who engaged in the act of homosexuality and such acts (along with the rest of the sexually promiscuous acts) were roundly condemned.)
So for us, as Christians, to condemn people who have not engaged in a sinful act simply because our culture defines them as homosexual is in reality no different to the Nazi's who condemned the Jews (and others whom the Nazi's considered to be social or political mis-fits) simply for being Jews, a fact about which the Jews themselves could do nothing.
This is why it is so important that we get it right in what we, as Christ's ambassadors, proscribe and condemn since others (Hitler, for example) will often take their lead from us!
Food for thought?!
Yours, in His service,
Simonline.