Christian/Muslim ThreadsScientif errors in the Koran: Shooting stars and the devilsAbdurrahman wrote:
Kai replies: Greetings to you as well Abdurrahman wrote: Kai replies: But to your information, I have not consulted answering Islam on the matter, this issue was well known to me several years before answering Islam ever existed. Abdurrahman wrote: Kai replies: Well, I will leave the Muslim scholars with the challenge to translate and interpret the Koran. Do keep in mind though, that driving away devils or stoning devils merely presents the same problem. So whether you favour Yusuf Ali or Arberry, the problem is far from solved. Abdurrahman wrote: Kai replies: But the matter is not whether the text implies the repelling of devils or the driving away or stoning Satan. The matter concerns, and I will repeat it: 1) Stars are not shooting stars 2) Stars being material objects cannot harm spiritual beings Secondly, the Arberry translation states that stars are used as stones, thus it does not solve the problem. Stars are not missiles or stones, they are simply not used to control demonic activity. Abdurrahman wrote: Kai replies: Well, again bro, I appreciate your attempt but: 1. I have not built information upon Jochen Katz 2. What is the actual evidence that Arberry is more accurate than Yusuf Ali? 3. And thirdly, reading Arberry (and I have his translation right here in my hands, two volumes, titled: The Koran Interpreted from 1955) does in no way remove the problem. Arberry, just like Yusuf Ali states in his translations that stars are being used to deal with space flying devils. The questions can thus be asked again: 1. Are stars shooting stars? 2. How can material objects be used to target spiritual beings 3. Stars are still being used to cast away or stone devils, which is presents a scientific problem. Abdurrahman wrote: Kai replies: Dear bro, again I am greatly inspired by your effort, but even here serious inconsistency emerges: 1. Now you are relying on commentaries and human sources to explain the word of Allah, instead of simply standing by Allah’s word; do I sense disbelief? 2. Your fallacy at this point is falling into speculation and reading a whole lot of details into the text which virtually and basically are not found therein. 3. The text in the Koran does not refer to occult science or astrologers; it speaks about devils who virtually seek to listen to Allah’s word in heaven. 4. There is simply no credible links between the devils and human beings. 5. Neither does the Koran speak about these stars as being the actual heavenly information; there are several problems here: 6. The devils are devils not human beings. 7. The stars are not the information, the stars are the source of protection, the missiles! (This is eisegesis, basically speculation, bro) There is more 8. If the stars are the actual heavenly information you are virtually giving credit to the actual proof behind astrology. 9. If stars are the information and additionally the source of destruction of the human being who manage to read them (in other words astrologers), how come this phenomena is not an everyday event? There are literally hundreds of thousands of astrologers who e.g. are writing in the papers on a daily basis, how come, we do not see the stars being thrown on their heads. 10. Which leads to the second-last problem at this point of the debate; if the devils are human astrologers and the stars the information and the source of their destruction, how can you explain that the world and our universe still exists, are you saying that thousands of actual stars enter our Solar-system and impact our earth daily? According to science if one such star (50 times larger than the earth) would be able to penetrate solar system, our earth would seize to exist, and the sun and the rest of the solar-system get out of balance. 11. Then to my last point, if the devils are human astrologers, the stars being the objects of destruction and they rain over the earth regularly on a daily basis, how come the stars are so remote? Would you not consider it paradoxical that Allah is using means from such a vast distance which take billions or years to reach our solar-system; by that time we will have judgement day, and those passages from the Koran will contradict science and history, as they are doing anyway. As to your point that the passage refers to the day of judgement, this is not a fact revealed in the particular passages. The passages clearly speak about an actual present occurrence of protecting the heavens from devils, not a future event. The Koran predicts devils being stoned while they attempt to obtain this information. Again speculation bro! Abdurrahman wrote:
Kai replies: There is no indication in the Koran that the: 1. Devils are human astrologers 2. That the stars are the actual heavenly information 3. That the stars are actually misguided information (in that case, why the need to protect the heavens) As a matter of fact we can put it this way, do the stars contain Allahs information or not; if they are not, then why protect this information and why did Allah place it there in the first place? There are additional scientific problems at this point, since even Arberry confirms that the stars are stones used to stone devils. However, if Arberry and the Koran are wrong, and the speculativists are correct in claiming that the devils are actually humans living on earth. Then the Koran states that the earth is being targeted continually by literal stars to teach these individuals a lesson. However, we would assume that one of these lessons would be sufficient, beyond that point, there would be nothing more to learn, for any of us. In other words the scientific problem of the Koran remains, and has now increased. Kai |
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