Religious Cults & False Prophets~ Discussions and DebatesDistinct PersonsSo the Trinity is a "revealed doctrine" in the OT, although the Jews, the ONLY nation that God had revealed himself to at that time, knew NOTHING of it, and the Trinity is "fully expressed" in the NT, although you agree THERE IS NOT ONE SINGLE VERSE IN THE NT THAT STATES THAT GOD IS 3 IN ONE?
And the Jews rejected their prophesied Messiah because they refused to accept what was prophesied concerning Jesus. So to appeal to the Jews while at the same time ignoring the fact that all the NT books, with the possible exception of Luke were written by Jews denies comprehension. Hebrews is especially important since this book was addressed to Jews. Now have you really studied Hebrews? 2 Timothy 2:14-17
14 Remind them of these things, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless, and leads to the ruin of the hearers. 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, handling accurately the word of truth. 16 But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness, 17 and their talk will spread like gangrene. NAS
NT:3054
logomacheo (log-om-akh-eh'-o); from a compound of NT:3056 and NT:3164; to be disputatious (on trifles):
KJV - strive about words.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
NT:3054
logomacheoo, logomachoo;
to contend about words; contextually, to wrangle about empty and trifling matters: 2 Timothy 2:14
(from Thayer's Greek Lexicon, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 2000 by Biblesoft)
What I find interesting about you non-Trinitarians is you refuse to address or respond to those Scriptures that show the Trinity is truth. You prefer to deal with and argue (wrangle) over one or two words and avoid that words convey concepts. se·man·tics P Pronunciation Key (s -m n t ks)
n. (used with a sing. or pl. verb)
1. Linguistics. The study or science of meaning in language.
2. Linguistics. The study of relationships between signs and symbols and what they represent. Also called semasiology.
3. The meaning or the interpretation of a word, sentence, or other language form: We're basically agreed; let's not quibble over semantics.
se·man·tics (s -m n t ks)
n.
1. The study or science of meaning in language forms.
2. The study of the relationships between various signs and symbols and what they represent.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=semantics
Omega did an excellent job defining the Greek word used in many NT passages that state Jesus and the Father are one. The word used in these Scripture is: NT:1520
heis (hice); (including the neuter [etc.] hen); a primary numeral; one:
KJV - a (-n, -ny, certain), + abundantly, man, one (another), only, other, some. See also NT:1527, NT:3367, NT:3391, NT:3762.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
NT:1520
heis, mia, hen,
a cardinal numeral, one.
1. universally,
a. in opposed to many; and
<START GREEK>a<END GREEK>. added to nouns after the manner of an adjective: Matthew 25:15
<START GREEK>b<END GREEK>. substantively, with a partitive genitive -- to denote one, whichever it may be: Matthew 5:19
<START GREEK>g<END GREEK>. absolutely: Matthew 23:8-10
b. in opposition to a division into parts, and in ethical matters to dissensions: Romans 12:4 f
c. with a negative following joined to the verb, no one, Matthew 10:29
2. emphatically, so that others are excluded, and eis is the same as:
a. a single Matthew 21:24
b. alone: Mark 2:7
c. one and the same Romans 3:30
3. the numerical force of eis is often so weakened that it hardly differs from the indefinite pronoun tis, or from our indefinite article Matthew 8:19
4. it is used distributively
a. eis ... kai eis, one ... and one: Matthew 17:4
b. eis hekastos, everyone: Acts 2:6
c. a solecism (a deviation from normal word order)
everyone, one by one, Mark 14:19
5. like the Hebrew 'echaad, eis is put for the ordinal prootos, first the first day of the week, Matthew 28:1
(from Thayer's Greek Lexicon, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 2000 by Biblesoft)
This is the Greek word for the cardinal number one. John 10:25-30
25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these bear witness of Me. 26 "But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep. 27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 "I and the Father are one." NAS
John 17:21-23
22 "And the glory which Thou hast given Me I have given to them; that they may be one, just as We are one; 23 I in them, and Thou in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, that the world may know that Thou didst send Me, and didst love them, even as Thou didst love Me. NAS
The true church or Body of Christ is “heis” (one).
Jesus plainly states the Father and He are one in number. However, they are not the same entity or “person”.
Now if it is your desire to debate the meaning of words then we need to debate them in the original language with the full understanding of what the original language conveys. John 10:30
I and my Father are one.
[I and my Father are one.] If Jesus Christ were not God, could he have said these words without being guilty of blasphemy? It is worthy of remark that Christ does not say, I and MY Father, which my our translation very improperly supplies, and which in this place would have conveyed a widely different meaning: for then it would imply that the human nature of Christ, of which alone, I conceive, God is ever said to be the Father in Scripture, was equal to the Most High: but he says, speaking then as God over all, I and THE Father, egoo (NT:1473) kai (NT:2532) ho (NT:3588) pateer (NT:3962) hen (NT:1520) esmen (NT:2070)-the Creator of all things, the Judge of all men, the Father of the spirits of all flesh-are ONE, ONE in nature, ONE in all the attributes of Godhead, and ONE in all the operations of those attributes: and so it is evident the Jews understood him. See John 17:11,22.
(from Adam Clarke's Commentary, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1996 by Biblesoft)
John 17:17-23
17 "Sanctify them in the truth; Thy word is truth. 18 "As Thou didst send Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 "And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth. 20 "I do not ask in behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21 that they may all be one; even as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be in Us; that the world may believe that Thou didst send Me. 22 "And the glory which Thou hast given Me I have given to them; that they may be one, just as We are one; 23 I in them, and Thou in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, that the world may know that Thou didst send Me, and didst love them, even as Thou didst love Me. NAS
Who is our Savior God or Jesus the Messiah? Titus 1:1-4
1:1 Paul, a bond-servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness, 2 in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago, 3 but at the proper time manifested, even His word, in the proclamation with which I was entrusted according to the commandment of God our Savior; 4 to Titus, my true child in a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.
NAS
Titus 2:11-14
11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, 12 instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus; 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds. NAS
It would appear Paul cannot make up his mind if God is our Savior or if Jesus is our Savior.
How do we determine is someone is teaching by the fullness of the Spirit? By what they teach and how what they teach aligns with Biblical truth.
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