Liberate wrote:This is not worthy of a comment, if you hold such views you are just as fundamental and no different from a suicide bomber attacking the innocent.
H2O wrote:I am a fundamentalist. I couldnt be a believing muslim if I wasnt a fundamentalist whom follows and believes in the fundamental teachings of The Quran.
Then you are a paedophile supporting human being an insult to the rest of humanity asking everybody to respect this sick beast of a man.
Linerate wrote:You would be forced to become a paedophile because Mohammed practiced it, to be like him? is this what you are trying to say?
If that is what you think then so be it. I already said that I would Nikah a woman of such age, I find nothing wrong with it, as for my purpose for doing it has nothing to do with sex.
Knowing full well that Nikah means to "
penetrate... to have sexual intercourse"... do you realise what you just said makes you no different from a paedophile?
[quote="Liberate""]
H2O wrote:I would still like to know how was Aisha 6 years old in the second year of the Hijrah if she was 18 when the Prophet was taken away which was 9 years later after the Nikah ?
Bring your sources you do not have a leg to stand on, your scholars are unanimous: [/quote]
You already quoted it :
Liberate wrote:It is not clear just when the marriage actually took
place. According to some versions, it was in the month
of Shawwal of the Year 1, that is, some seven or eight
months
after the arrival at Medina; but, according to
others, it was not until after the Battle of Badr, that
is,
in Shawwal of the second year of the Hijrah........
http://www.angelfire.com/ny/dawahpage/aisha.html
Something must be wrong with you. You ask a question when you already have the answer. Wow man, your really amazing ! The source your quoted tells you that they married after the Hijrah.
Are you sure you even read it?
Did you read this particular bit in the beginning of it?:
It is not clear just when the marriage actually took
place
Tell us exactly what makes you believe the marriage took place pre hijrah or post hijrah? if it's pre hijrah what makes you think Mohammed didn't consumate the marriage with a pre-pubescent nine year old girl? If it's post-hijrah what makes you think Mohammed didn't consumate the 'marriage' with a nine year old pre-pubescent girl?
Let us ask you a simple question when do you think the marriage actually took place? Mecca or Medina? where is your proof? For you to say Aisha had reached puberty you must have a definite logical reason based on those same hadiths, if you believe they all contradict each other what makes you think your unwarranted interpretation out of context isn't also a contradiction, and by your own standards be dismissed?
Do you not see the logical fallacy you are placing yourself in? making a one sided argument with a mountain of counter arguments against you? In the light of many other independent narrators verifying the same event and verifying her age when this 'marriage' was consumated? Do you honestly think in a court of law you have a leg to stand on?
On the other hand you have hadeeths that say, with out the locality, he married her when she was six and then others 9. These hadeeths are taking into perspective with the hadeeths that report they married after the Hijrah.
It seems you missed the question entirely, you are saying the one hadith you interpret to mean the marriage took place after the Hijrah contradicts the others that indicate the 'marriage' took place pre-hijrah I am asking you to show me where these hadiths state that the marriage takes place pre-hijrah for you to say they contradict with the hadith of Hisham surely they must state the alledged place the 'marriage' took place to contradict with what Hisham says.
Let me even help you out with the hadiths in question, tell us where they state the marriage/marriage contract/betrothal/engagement takes place in Mecca:
Document A
Sahih Bukhari vol. 5, Book 58, Number 234 Narrated 'Aisha: The prophet engaged (Khitbah) me when I was a girl of six. We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage).
Mecca is being hinted at that the betrothal/engagement/marriage contract took place.
Document B
Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310: 'Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married (Nikah) me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.
Where is Mecca or Medina mentioned as the place the marriage/betrothal/engagement took place?
Document C
Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88 Narrated 'Urwa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) (Nikah) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).
Where is Mecca or Medina mentioned as the place the marriage/betrothal/engagement took place?
Document D
Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64 Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married (Nikah) her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
Where is Mecca or Medina mentioned as the place the marriage/betrothal/engagement took place?
Document E
Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236:
Narrated Hisham's father:
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.
Where is Mecca or Medina mentioned as the place the marriage/betrothal/engagement took place?
Before you start screaming that it is obvious from the context let me show you something that you may not have contemplated, and the reason why no serious muslim scholar sees any contradiction:
Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 165:
Narrated 'Aisha:
I did not feel jealous of any woman as much as I did of Khadija because Allah's Apostle used to mention her very often. He married me after three years of her death, and his Lord (or Gabriel) ordered him to give her the good news of having a palace of Qasab in Paradise.
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age
If Mohammed married Aisha three years after the death of Khadijah and he stayed
'there' for 2 years or so before marrying Aisha '
there' is obviously not referring to Medina but still in Mecca, notice there is no then or subsequent adverb between the two mutually exclusive statements, hence no contradiction with your document A. Seeing your impressive deductive reasoning skills I wonder if this will go over your head.
Do you also notice who is in the isnad of this hadith compared to the isnad of the other hadiths? who do you think holds more credibility Aisha or Hisham? and considering the 11 other tabi and sahaba of the prophet that narrated the same thing as Aisha and the numerous succesors thats narrated the same thing who do you think holds more credibility? Do you notice Hisham is not sure of the exact time because he says "for 2 years
or so" do you notice the imprecise adverb
"or so" in that statement? while Aisha clearly says 3 years? Do you not realise the main topic of Hisham's hadith was not about dates but the fact that Aisha was 6 years old at marriage and 9 years old at consumation which is undenied, you say you have no problem with her being that age then what on earth is your argument about? she was playing with her dolls and in no way had reached puberty:
Sahih Muslim Book 8, Number 3311
'A'isha reported that Allah's Apostle married her when she was seven years old, and (s)he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he died she was eighteen years old
This is undenied and this is what I want you to face, your prophet is a paedophile, I find it sadly sickening your conscience has been seared to this extent.
Liberate wrote:....like I said in a court of law multiple witnesses attesting to the same thing will over rule your solitary evidence taken out of context, you cannot defend this other than appeal to semantic word play and take general statements to be verbatim and verbatim statements to be ambiguous
You forgot I said also Quran. WE have also a new witness, its called math.
I suggest you do the maths yourself with the hadiths above.