Thanks Alexei, (interesting new avatar you have, hehe, I'll miss your flag)
I appreciated your examples, but I don't think they really answer my question. Please let me try and explain
I have to post another quote at this point
Allah does no wrong
"Allah does no wrong" means that He is active and powerful but He can do no wrong. Anybody who commits wrong or injustice does so either because he does not know that it is wrong, (but Allah knows every thing) or because he needs something which cannot be obtained without wrongdoing, (but Allah has no need) or because he has been compelled by somebody else to commit that wrong, (but Allah is Omnipotent and nobody can compel Him to do anything). So logically it is impossible for Allah to do any injustice, or wrong.
Abu Hanifa asked Imam Musa bin Jaffer: From who is the action of man? Imam replied: "there are only 3 imaginable sources.
1) Either Allah is the doer of that action; or
2) Both together are the companions of that action; or
3) The man himself is the originator of his actions.
If Allah is the doer of the actions of man, why does he inflict punishment on man for the sins? Is it not injustice? And if both man and Allah are partners in that crime, then is it not gross injustice that the powerful partners (i.e. Allah) punishes the weaker partner (i.e. man) for an action which both of them performed together? And as these two alternatives are proved to be illogical and impossible, the 3rd theory is proved to be correct that man does his actions by his own power and will."
"Whatever benefit comes to you (O man!), it is from Allah, and whatever misfortune befalls you, it is from yourself, and We have sent you (O Prophet!), to mankind as a messenger; and Allah is sufficient as a witness." (Quran 4:79)
Now, I see a tension here. On the one hand we are told that whether you are forgiven for your sins is "as Allah wills". Yet 'Adl teaches us that Allah has given us free will and therefore is totally just in punishing evil and rewarding good.
A furthur dilemma comes when I read
There are Muslims who say that Allah can do evil. They say that Allah can punish the obedient ad bring the evil doers and the unbelievers into paradise. They also say that Allah can order his servants to perform actions which are beyond their capabilities and endurance, and at the same time, that He can punish them for not doing those things. In short, they say that Allah can be an oppressor, cand do what is in error, can deceive His servants and do things which are without purpose, interest and benefit."
http://home.sipnet.se/islam/books/Shia_faith/02.htm
Alexei, can you show me how all these are reconciled? My question in the original post came from this dilemma.. for I still can't see in whose eyes something is "sinful and shameful" in light of the quotes from Muslim material.
thankyou
Carol