Archivedeternal securityRegardless of who brought up works, it is a natural progression from the viewpoint you are defending. That's probably why faithman was the one to bring it up - you would never say you believe in works-based salvation, but in reality, if you believe you can work to lose your salvation, it is only natural and logical to believe you can work to gain it. In fact, what you believe is completely illogical. If you can't work for your salvation, how can you do a work to lose it? Conversely, if you can do a work to lose salvation, why can't you do a work to gain it? Couldn't possibly mean that those who apostisize were never believers in the first place? Couldn't possibly be referring to the church in general apostisizing (i.e. the local church as a whole moving away from God even though there are still a number of true believers in the local church who are not falling away)? Yes it does. It says "no man." If anyone at all, including yourself, can take you out of God's hand, then the verses above are not true. You are making the assumption that a person who makes a profession of faith and does good works for a while but then stops actually had faith in the first place. This is a faulty assumption. People can claim to be saved and do good works without actually being saved. Take Mother Theresa, for example. People cannot claim to be saved and expect people to believe it unless there is a demonstration of that faith (i.e. works) to go along with it. This is the point James is making. You're trying to make this verse say something it is not. The verse says "If anyone does not abide in Me..." It does not say "If anyone ceases to abide in Me..." This verse is teaching that those who are not saved will be cast out. It is not teaching that if you chose to not be saved by ceasing to do good works then you will be cast out. No it doesn't. I believe I have free will. I also believe God knows every choice I'm going to make. But God's omniscience does not mean I'm not making my own choices. A real Christian will not continue in this type of activity (1 John 3:9). Someone who continues in sinful activity is evidencing that they are not really saved. The reality of being human is that we will sin. I don't ignore that. The reality of being Christian is that you will repent and not continue in sin. The reality of being non-Christian is that you will sin and not repent. You accuse me of ignoring the reality of being human. I have shown you I do not ignore this. Now can you please show me how you are not ignoring the fact that some people can make a profession of faith but not really be saved. You seem to think that anyone who says "oh yeah, I'm saved" is actually saved, no questions asked. Right..... because they were never Christians in the first place. This view is nothing more than adding to Scripture. Instead of believing Jesus when He says "no man can snatch you out of my hand," you are making Jesus say "no man, except for yourself if you choose to walk away, can snatch you out of my hand." Do you really believe that Jesus is strong enough to keep everyone, including Satan himself, from taking you out of His hand, but that He's not strong enough to keep you from taking yourself out? Do you think He was just kidding when He said: "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ"? |
🌈Pride🌈 goeth before Destruction
When 🌈Pride🌈 cometh, then cometh Shame