Christian/Muslim ThreadsNo Proof Quran Copied from Bible, Gnostic or Jewish SourcesTo LIberate:
Then help us out buddy what exactly are we arguing about? [/quote] You still don't get it, do you? Tisdall believe or would like to believe that the Arabic Gospel of Infancy is the source. He just do not have the evidence to prove his case. He conveniently sidestepped the issue of the Arabic source and focused on the Coptic source. Liberate wrote He did not write that the apocryphal was written post Quran. Neither did he make it clear that the source was during or before the Prophet's time. He was being ambiguous to cover his shortcomings. Liberate wrote: Did I say that "it is responsible for the story in the koran"? Read what I wrote CAREFULLY. Liberate wrote: i) What proof will YOU accept of plagiarism? First, I have defined 'plagiarism' in my earlier posting. If you want to pursue the issue of plagiarism, then use the definition. Secondly, in the absence of concrete evidence, I do not think that it is plagiarism. ii) DO YOU THINK THE STYLE OF THE ARABIC WILL BE BAD BEFORE OR AFTER MOHAMMED? Tisdall said that the Arabic Gospel of Infancy was translated from Coptic, the apocryphal could be written in Egypt (I assume since Tisdall mentioned Coptic) pre or post Quran. Egypt only became Islamic couple of years after the death of the Prophet. Tisdall could not have known for certain here that it was definetely pre-Quran. (which explains why he did not say specifically if it was availble during the Prophet;s time at Mecca). Nevertheless, the Quran was reveled in excellent Arabic (in the Quraish dialect) and not in Egyptian Arabic. If the argument is of textual plagiarism, then it is more logical to assume that the apocryphal must have been translated in Quriash Arabic in Mecca during or before MUhammad's (pbuh) time. If the Arabic Gospel of Infancy is Quraish, Tisdall would certain have jumped to the conclusion that the apocryphal was available during the Prophet's time and he would certainly state so to back his claim. You ceratinly do not see him make that claim. Unless, of course, you then start using Tisdall argument of, maybe, oral copying through a copt like Mary. Then, we do not need to argue over the textual copying? Can Liberate confirm that when the Quran mentions "these are but tales of the ancients" it was referring to the tales of Jesus and his childhood? Liberate wrote: I am not so knowledgeable about Syrian Nestorians and what the books they read. I wrote to Loki about apocryphals and you mentioned scriptures of the Nestorians. Are you saying the scriptures of the Nestorians are the apocryphals? Proof? I have not seen any, yet. If your objective is to prove to Muslims that the Quran plagiarises from the apocryphals, we surely need your PROOF, not subjective opinions. So, the story of the apocryphals and the Quran sounds similar and Liberate and Loki shouted plagiarism. But I have written earlier, the stories of the canonical Gospels and the Quran also contain many similarities. Strangely, LOki wrote So, I throw the ball back at you: If you say the Quran plagiarises the apocryphals, then bring me the proof. salam |
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