BISMILLAHIRRAHMAANIRRAHIIM
HI Joseph
WOW!! what a coincidence. I am happen to be an EX CHRISTIAN convert to ISLAM.
I had assumed the above, but seems my statement went over your head
Forum like this that make me convert to Islam. Me and my friends.
Who says they speak against Christianity and Gospel? They are explaining about the verses in Al-Qur'an deeply by respecting the basic rule of interpreting Al-Qur'an. Are they talking or shouting at you Christians in this forum?
IF explanations for Quran Muslims in pleasant tone, then Muslims are not speaking against Gospel and Christianity. Is this your logic or Muslims in general? Accusations of Bible corruption and Christian faith are built into Muslim's instructions on Islam.
We people in this world have right to believe or not believe. We have right to believe in ALLAH as our GOD as Muslims as Christians believe in Christianity and things around it.
When ALLAH says corrupted, then, it's corrupted. When ALLAH says there are no such SON OF GOD exists, Then, it is not exist. But ALLAH let us free to explore. Although we trust the scholars, we are still taught to explore which is the best explanations. We are not in "blind trust". We some time making comparison among the explanations of the scholars.
Anyway, there are no sign to attack other religion do such evil deeds by attacking Christianity. Those are internal matter. Why do you have to iritated by this? You can NOT push people to believe what you believe.
Saying in one of your post, you are to here prove the Bible is not Injil. How do you purpose to do this; with Quran, ahadith, tafsir. Yet, according to you, I must refer to same Islamic scholar for my objections to Quran and Islamic beliefs.
Of course Bible is not INJEEL. What's wrong with that? We say that base on what Al-Qur'an explain it self. And compare to Bible, way too much different Joseph.
Surah 19:30
He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet;
Which of this statement related to Bible?
Surah 7:157
"Those who follow the apostle, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;...
Allatheena yattabiAAoona alrrasoolaalnnabiyya al-ommiyya allathee yajidoonahumaktooban AAindahum fee alttawrati waal-injeeliya
Prove to me Joseph that the verse about is about Bible.
So, Injeel is not Bible. The Information from Al-Qur'an is way different with the Bible you are holding now.
The issue is reasoning of Islam, I have made an argument on your opinion or Islamic belief or both, on why the Quran cannot totally rule out Sonship. What has your rebuttal been except for argumentative, creating fictional rules and changing rationalization.
That
fictional rules you say is a wishful thinking Joseph. That's coming from your ignorance about Islam. The history of the verses is not a fictive. Verses support other verses, Verses explaining other verses. Those are all the character of AL-Qur'an.
In support of rebuttal you quoted Q:5:116 which according to Islam, Jesus denies He is Lord. When shown the verse was unsupportive, the rational for submitting it just simply changed. Another example, was refering Q: 3:59 and hadith assuming no further commenting was needed. Debate the issue instead of merely given another ayah its related hadith then asking me a question. That is not debating.
In debate, you can trap your opponent by telling him the things that he ignored in his arguments. The ignorance of the opponent can be a boomerang to him self, and that canbe the weakness of an argument.
You hope to win the war , but you ignore the situation of the field.
You'd better learn Al-Qur'an first before you start debate.
If you believe the ayah and hadith is relevant to your argument then included them in rebuttal, and see if I can answer: Instead of the 'I do not care what you think' defense.
That word came after you ignore to what is belongs to Al-Qur'an.
The word TRUST is not finish by it self...I'd better trust IBN KATSIR to talk about TAFSIR than listening you making any tafsir of Al-Qur'an, since you haven't convince us that you are an expert about it. That's the word TRUST in this case.
Physics and astronomy are not the subject nor were the influential men of these fields. What their findings and publications have to say, will have no bearing on person's salvation. Here is a quote form Hawkings on criticism of his works.
"What should you do when you find you have made a mistake like that? Some people never admit they are wrong and continue to find new, and often mutually inconsistent, arguments to support their case…It seems to me much better and less confusing if you admit in print that you were wrong." - Stephen Hawking
An interesting comment from Hawking. How ever he learned before he made such statements. That's what we have to follow.
Hope you can see the difference type of trust I intended. The mentioned men have contributed greatly to the sciences but they remain capable of making big blunders. Nonetheless, I have not asked for trust of Muslims, just like no person should be asked to trust in so-called experts for their salvation. To you use your method of rebuttal; word convince is not finished by itself, people even the majority, can be convinced and still not have the truth. Put away the semantics and start debating the issue.
Hallo....Where are you Joseph? Don't you see I am debating newseed and Apple pie? Where is your quality comments regarding to what newseed posted?
Can you convince me that not even a single teaching to worship the virgin Mary? if you can, then just do it.
This is related to your failure with Q:5:116, but I am supposed to convince you there is no teaching in mainstream Christianity for worship of Mary.
Failure in your side doesn't mean failure in our side. I just want you to know that ALTHOUGH 5:116 talking about virgin Mary, that's no necessary talking about Christianity.
Give your reason, be it Christian background or any other reason, why you believe this is true. No source is required, just speak and make a sound argument for objections.
No source is required? how come I convince people in this forum without any sources? Also, I will share my Muslims brothers and sisters the information as much as I can. Hope they can use this for their references.
And when Allåh will say: O Jesus, son of Mary, didst thou say to men, Take me and my mother for two gods besides Allåh? He will say: Glory be to Thee! it was not for me to say what I had no right to (say). If I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy mind. Surely Thou art the great Knower of the unseen.
Wait. There are no sign of trinity or Christianity mentioned in that verse.
I am asking you and pls answer.
Can you prove me that not even a single teaching or believe about "WORSHIPPING MARY" and treat many as a god? I am talking about "After Jesus" times.
You are talking about PERCENTAGE. Be careful when you talk about this to me. You have to answer me. Is that your MERELY OPPINION, or base on a SURVEY or any REASEARCH?
Anecdotal but you are more than welcome to dispute with your facts.
No Joseph, if you responsible to what you said, backed it up with proves. I am not in position in proving anything. That PERCENTAGE word coming from you. can you prove your own word?
So unless your disagreement is merely opinion (having no survey or research that states otherwise) then there is no reason for warning. Now is your chance to discredit my assertion, by giving facts and source, for why I should be careful. Like I said before, let the reader judge the argument and not make debate a matter of what convinces you/us.
Ok then. The fact is that percentage is not backed up by proves.
But I found my peace in Islam. Anyway, that's your right to do it.
Peace be with you and everyone else. Buddhist, Hindu, even atheist can say they have found their peace, which is their prerogative to say. But get it right, 25 and even 15 years ago Islam was hardly in average Christians vocabulary. If there is Christian militancy to Islam then you have Ahmed Deedat ( and other dawgandist) and his disciples to thank for that. In later part of 1970's , Deedat and his kind came on scene propagating Islam not with strength of Quran, but through vicious and underhanded attacks on Bible and Christianity. Heck yes Muslims are disappointed with present day Christians, they are not the docile Christians of 70s and 80s that were so much fun for Muslims. I would say whatever Christians intolerance exist was earned by propagators of Islam.
I'm just confuse. What are we talking about? the title of this forum is Qur'an vs Bible by comparing the amount of words. Then we are talking about scholars interpreting Al-Qur'an. Then suddenly jump to Ahmed Deedat. Where am I know? looks like I am on nowhere land.
Agree. But so far all I foud here are nothing but ignorance to other people believe.
Here is chance for you to do something about it, instead of merely expressing your disappoint with Deedat like wit and substance.
You've just shown the forum your ignorance about Islam and I am not discussing about Deedat Joseph. You come to that thing.
Get back on the issue, make an argument on my reasoning rather then myself.
joseph
I am waiting the response from Newseed and Apple Pie. Can you see that Josh?
Salaam to you.