Christian/Muslim ThreadsJesus and the pagan mythsI think we are waisting our time here, we getting completely away from the original challenge. Kai replies: Point 1: How can this be the main issue, when I continually have urged you to prove your claims? The issue of pagan influence found in the Koran is merely a sub-issue, until you bring some evidences on the table. Point 2: What speculation, we are considering the issues you have brought up. So far I have brought no claims up, I have looked at the full picture from your point of view, and detected that the same traces of so called pagan influence can be traced right into the Koran. So bro the speculation is not mine, I am merely elaborating on yours. H2O wrote: Kai replies:
H2O wrote: Kai replies: No prophet brought miracles in the same manner as Jesus Christ, and the Koran verifies itself that Jesus empowered to heal the sick, cast the demons, raise the dead, (and am I right) power over nature? I posted some of the Koranic sources in a earlier source, anyone can go back and decide for himself how similar the Koran sounds to the pagan ideas you posted. If you are correct, why does the Koran put such an emphasis on Jesus rather than on Mithra and Krishn? I mean (according to you assertions) they must have been prophets as well, right? And if the Koran merely mentions Jesus since it applied for the ancient world of Muhammad's time. Would this then be fair toward the Hindues and the Buddists in the East. Also, thought that Islam was meant to be universal, then why such an emphasis on Jesus only? Something makes no sense here. Also we should assume that the virgin birth, the miracles and all the rest of the stuff, is common in all these religions, as if they present a package. Thus if one of these elements like the virgin birth refers to Jesus, we would assume that the rest would follow us well. Concering the pagan king, I agree, God can give power to whom he wills. Concerning the women who actually raised up a dead man in the Bible, can you provide me with actual passage, that is of course if you are able to differentiate between spiritism and actual resurrection. H2O wrote: Kai replies: I will leave you Muslims to deal with the problem yourself. H2O wrote:
Kai replies: I know the concept and meaning of anointment, however, in your list of pagan influence in the Bible, the Messiah was one of the issues. What you are saying merely contradicts your own previous claims. Does the Koran ascribe this title to Jesus? Yes! Is it ascribed to Muhammad? No! That is of course unless you agree with the fake gospel of Barnabas in which Muhammad and not Jesus was anointed. H2O wrote: Kai replies: The same issue again. Your previous claim, was supposed to bring Christianity into trouble, since other religious figures promised immortality. Did Jesus do so? Yes! Does Islam? Yes! Do we have a problem then? Yes! Especially since you agree with the material you read since you have been through it in school. H2O wrote:
Kai replies: Well your tool of judgement is the Koran, was any other prophet or human being born by a virgin, other than Jesus. H2O wrote:
Kai replies: What? You mean you have changed your view a third time? First, the virgin birth, according to the list of pagan influence, and the archeological evidence supposed to reveal virgin birth, was taken in a negative sense, in other words pagan. And Christianity is pagan because it contains this particular similarity. The you changed your view, that the virgin birth is no problem to Islam, since every religion was inagurated by God. In other words, the same source which present a problem to Islam since they are pagan, provide no problem to Islam, even though they are the same sources. Where is the logic, is the virgin birth pagan or not? Does it present a problem or not? I asked you then (because Koran really does only ascribe virgin birth to Jesus Christ), if this does not present a problem, since in case of your sudden change of mind, all these previous religions would bring credit to Christianity and not Islam. And now we have a change of view, for the third time. Now you propose that there were several virgin births. Is this really a Islamic theory, or is this your own speculation? I would think that the issue of man's proliferation on earth at the early stage is a issue targeting Islam as well as Christianity, however, suggesting a mass virgin birth, is nothing but speculation, otherwise prove me wrong. H2O wrote: Kai replies: At this point, not only do we have a spontaous change of mind, also talk about speculation. Any other Muslim who is willing to take up the challenge. |
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