This is not simply logical or deductive reasoning. However animals are not capable of logical or deductive reasoning either! They can learn by experience, by trial and error, but t
When why is it that a dolphin is capable of instructing other dolphins to pass an object through a net, and why will octopi, with no instruction or examples, open a jar, eat the crab inside, then seal themselves inside... On the first try.
Lets define imagination shall we...
i·mag·i·na·tion Noun
1.
1. The formation of a mental image of something that is neither perceived as real nor present to the senses.
2. The mental image so formed.
3. The ability or tendency to form such images.
2. The ability to confront and deal with reality by using the creative power of the mind; resourcefulness: handled the problems with great imagination.
WHo is confining the definition now?
Seems the way I was using it, fits the definition.
Although the comment Alyrium gave was right, it was severely limited. Individual creativity is not about tools or 'evolutionary advantage.' It is about the desire to express one's unique individual self in what one does -- something entirely absent in the animal kingdom.
Thanks for shifting the burden of proof onto yourself with an all-inclusive claim.
Now I only need to provide one example.Bower Birds create unique individual nests in order to please their mates each year. Expressing their own unique individual self etc etc. Adeli(sp) penguins do the same. And a gorilla will use available materials to create a nest every night, that is comfortable to its own "personal" preferences
Alyrium was skirting the point when he said beauty is an opinion. And yet he added another point to the list for us. People have opinions. They think about things and arrive at different conclusions or feel differently about them. What group of animals is going to argue or even discuss among themselves the value of one color over another?
See abiove example of bower birds. The female has an opinion of a male's nest.
And the ability to argue over colors is unknowable, seeing as we cannot yet communicate with various species.
And I never stated that non hominids could create art either. Most of them lack thumbs with which to do so, and the organisms that lead to our being able to do so, are now extinct. So "art" I will agree is, currently, an ability reserved for homo sapiens
Language is key as well as abstract. Animals communicate. We have language. No animal, contrary to what was claimed, has language. They have sound nuances which indicate various communications, but the communications ALWAYS have to do with physical realities and the present tense, if you will. "I'm here" the mother communicates to the child. "Food is here" "Get out of my territory" -- this sort of thing is communicated by animals to animals of their own species.
Explain the dolphin
http://www.dauphinlibre.be/markovhtm.pdf
They posess synta, grammar and an open vocabulary and all other criteria to be considered a language.
You just got owned.
We study history. We write down history. We reenact history in plays and such. We study civilizations distant from us in time. How could Alyrium have ignored this? Oh well...
We couldnt study history or write history until we developed a written language. SOmething that dolphins, the only other animal to posess a language, have not done. Probably due to their lack of thumbs.
And I dare say, a dolphin cannot very well put on a head dress and do a symbolic folklore dance. Granted, we have no idea as to what they are actually saying as far as nouns, verbs, adverbs, or adjectives while they are swimming around, using said language.
This has nothing to do with passing on one's genes! If that were so, then large families would be the norm among the rich and not small or non-existent families!
Except that, families were huge. They were huge for a long time out of necessity. Now that we have a low infant mortality rate, we do not need to produce as many offspring. ANd having to many these days is counter productive. Hence the 2.3 average in western cultures, and much larger in third world countries where many children are needed to do the massive amounts of manual labor required to survive.
Instead, those who are in a position to not have to be concerned with where the next meal is coming from start college accounts for their kids, contribute to political parties, ecological concerns, charities -- trying, in one way or another, to make the world a better place for all people alive, whether or not these people are related to them or carry their genes.
In siciobiological terms, it is called group selection. The group that provides well for its own continued existance has a tendancy to survive. And reproduce, thus everyone's genes get passed along to the next generation.
It just so happens that the group is measured in terms of "COmmunity" "County" State" and "Nation" these days. The tendency to provide for the continued existance of the group(tempered with self interest of course) has been accentuated not through genetics, but through memetics(the evolution and propogation of ideas) to the point where the group concerned is very large.
A 56 year old woman long past the breeding age! Or did he show his post to a girl he wanted to seduce?
Girl? What are you talking about?
IN any case, are you saying that the habits and personality you developed in order to stand out and impress a mate, suddenly disappear when you are no longer capable of reproduction?
I doubt it. The desire to show intellectual superiority is uniquely human.
That it is, and you are strawmanning my position and putting words in my mouth, Bad form Tuppikins.
I was explaing the drive in humans to actively display intellectual superiority. Because that is your underlying motive(or at least was, now it can best be described as habit in your case) for doing so.
9. The drive to look at life through a philosophical frame of reference. This has NOTHING to do with simply 'understanding one's surroundings.' This has to do with the meaning of life. No animals gives a whit about the meaning of life. They only try to stay alive. It is uniquely human to want to know "why" where life is concerned.
I never stated that animals care, or give a whit. Stop setting your own strawman on fire. However, the desire to survive, and learn about your surroundings(Natural curiosity, posessed by most vertebrates) was followed by, after millions of years of evolution, complex logical thought and philosophy. That is what advanced human intelligence will do for you.
10. The drive/desire to harness nature itself is NOT just a 'survival instinct.' We see no animals, all of whom desire to survive and have that survival instinct, attempt to alter their environments to suit them. We see instinctual behavior such as the relationship between ants and those little things that suck the juice out of the roses whose name I cannot for the life of me remember right now! But that is behavior that never changes. We see nest-building, but that uses what it at hand and does not try to change the environment. Only humans have the desire and drive to control nature, over and above any kind of survival instinct.
ANd I need only use one example di refute you thansk to you wording... BEAVERS!!!! You know the semi aquatic rodents that have a desire to build artificial ponds for themselves.
Or how about aligators, which do the same thing.
ANd again, you are building your own strawman and setting it on fire. But I will indulge you anyway.
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While I was responding above, the thought occurred to me that people like Alyrium have been so brainwashed that they seem to be losing the ability to think for themselves or express their own individuality, or even, perhaps, appreciate beauty!
I am perfectly capable of thinking for myself expressing myself and appreciating Beauty.
I don't know that, but the thought did occur to me. I see so much mocking and so many of exactly the same arguments using the same words when creation is being attacked that I am wondering seriously now if believing in evolution the way they have been taught to believe means "think as I have taught you to think, say what I have taught you to say, believe what I have told you to believe, see what you are supposed to see...." etc.